quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Nice to see good ole China helping people out.
Well, I guess they heard you.
quote:Originally posted by Wraith: Updated aid estimates: World Bank: $250m UK: $96m Sweden: $75m China: $60m France: $56m EU $44m Netherlands: $36m US: $35m ... Again, from the BBC
quote:Originally posted by Nim': I would've had no problem walking over to the man who said that and break his nose, I would feel extremely justified.
Believe me, normally I would have been pissed enough to throttle them both while laughing, but their callusness in the face of such a disaster was somehow disheartening.
Their stupidity was just too huge for me to get worked up over.
I now understand that no disaster- no matter how horrible- will stir sympathy in some fuckers.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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I felt the same way when I overheard two 14-year old neonazi girls on the subway one evening. My intervention and lambasting would only have set them firmer in their ways, better to take it as a lesson in self-control and moderation, two invaluable tools in life.
You did right, Jason, I'm saying if I had been there, different ballpark.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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You can't change people like that with your fists. Not mentally, anyway.
Unfortunately.
"Not the UN, I'd hope."
Did Kofi Annan rape your mother, or something? For fuck's sake, this rabid UN-hatred of yours is REALLY getting old now. YES, it's far from perfect, and YES, it has screwed the pooch a fair number of times in its short history, but Jesus Christ, you'd think the entire top echelon consisted of corrupt pocket-lining suits from the way you keep berating the UN. Either propose an organizational structure that works better or knock it off. For once.
Registered: Nov 1999
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I dont think that giving HUGE sums of cash to organizations that propose to do good and hoping the people responsible for using those funds does not give in to temptation is idiotic. Then, whenever someone is critical of the current UN administration's bungling and lack of ANY oversight, people like you speak up to say "Propose an organizational structure that works better or shut up".
Well, fuck that- people like you are exactly why it's gotten this far- by accepting it because "theres nothing better".
You'd be royally pissed and screaming if the US embezzled 10 BILLION DOLLARS that was meant to feed the poorest people in Iraq, yet you'll defend ol' Kofi.
I dont just donate money to charities I dont trust- why should I want the UN handling $500 billion- intended for relief efforts- after they've shown they cant manage $10 billion without it going into the pockets of that "upper echelon"?
If an organization is corrupt, the leader of that organization should be held accountable. It's why we all voted against Bush- we dont have any such recourse with UN leadership though.
I DONT hate the UN- I love the idea of it, just not the poor way it's currently handled. Any world leader with Kofi's track record would have been impeached long before now- unfortunately, there is no real way to replace him with the UN stuctured the way it is. We can all just hope he resigns and someone better is elected....not that we'll have any say in that.
I do think that the UN needs a real shake up in those "upper echelons" if it's ever going to work as intended.
You want a better organizational structure? Disolve the Security Council- give all UN member nations equal voice and allow any member-country to openly review it's finances.
I never said I did not want the Un involved, but I have no idea who is handling all this cash- dont be suprised if we're talking about billions in missing relief aid this time next year.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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1) There's a difference between being critical, and just being an obstinate pain in the ass. "People like me" don't speak up to criticize something without making that criticism constructive, whereas "people like you" (thanks for the generalization) speak up only for the sake of criticizing, which is even LESS helpful than finger-pointing is in THIS situation.
2) I'm not defending Annan, so don't put those words in my mouth unless you plan to back them up.
3) ANY large international organization like the UN is going to be a bureaucratic nightmare susceptible to all sorts of shady dealings, but unless you're thinking about writing a personal cheque to each and every victim directly, there ARE no better (that is, less susceptible) ways to channel your money to where you want it to be channeled. And that has less to do with how the UN is structured than it has with good old human nature.
4) The UN would BE undergoing one huge reform right now if it weren't for the small snag that nobody can agree on HOW it should be reformed. It's not as if there's a lack of focal points, but when opinions range from "the UN should be a world government" to "the UN should be disbanded", typically, nothing ever GETS done. And that, again, is a problem brought on not so much by the UN's structure as by the plethora of personal and national agendas out there.
ANYHOW... I'm off to light some fireworks, talk to you next year, eh? B)
Registered: Nov 1999
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As I said, I'm not against the UN, I just really want this aid to actually get to the people that need it.
For now at least, that goal is better served by the money going to more private sources (Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, etc.) that have direct oversight from the countries hosting their relief efforts.
I wish I could join in the fireworks thing- it's pouring here in "sunny" Fort Lauderdale. I'm gonna go get ice cream- seeya/argue with ya next year.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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The US just upped its contribution to $350 million.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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Holy shit. Good going there. So that make total contributions over 700 million (with the World Bank's 250 million donation).
Many countries have canceled their New Year's festivities in favor of funeral services.
All this certainly puts my own troubles in perspective.....I'll be happy to see the end of 2004 though.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Well I got a new SMS from my friend earlier, he got home today, along with 8000 other swedes. That leaves 60 confirmed dead and 4000 still missing.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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From just Sweden, you mean? That's terrible... I imagine many will go unaccounted for though.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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I heard that the Canadian government has pledged to match any donation made to a number of Canadian aid groups. So, like, if you were to give 100 dollars to the Canadian Red Cross, they'd get 200, altogether. But only until January 11. A brief news story about it.
On an only tangentially related note, Spalding Gray's Swimming to Cambodia was on last night, featuring his idiosyncratic descriptions of places like Phuket. And, uh, anyway, I guess I recommend it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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As mentioned the US government has multiplied it's original donation ten-fold.
The Australian government has upped it's donation to $60 million
~3 dollars per Australian (pop 20 mil) ~57 cents per American. (pop 200 mil)
That is scarey - so many missing people. All those Swedes. Nice to hear your friend was OK!
The confirmed death toll for Australia has reached 11, fears that it maybe 111 - more than the Bali Bombing. still 1,500 missing Australians.
The terrible stories of survivors - I was watching a 'wrap up' on CNN. The number of children just swept out of parents arms. Elderly too. There was the story of a Mother who had to decide which of her children to let go - she let the eldest go - that later found him (alive) in a tree or on a roof after the waters receeded.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: There was the story of a Mother who had to decide which of her children to let go - she let the eldest go - that later found him (alive) in a tree or on a roof after the waters receeded.
That kid's gonna have serious abandonment issues.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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