posted
Very Biblical. Only a matter of time before more mainstream bozo's (not like the nut in the other thread)start spouting "will of God" nonsense.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think even they would have a difficult time claiming that their god had wiped out thousands of people across two continents just to stop a rebellion that's localized to one end of one island.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I wonder if Muslim extremists and the people who support them can see the effort the 'West' is doing to help save millions of people - and in one country especially - the most populous muslim country in the world. Probably not.
Anyway this disaster did not descriminate, westerners, locals, muslims, christians, jews, hindus, buddists etc.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Unfortunately, the Muslim extremists and their supporters probably won't see it in that light. They've probably taken America's initial not-well-received (read: viewed as stingy) offer of aid (granted, it did increase) as a reaffirmation that yes, America indeed is the great Satan and that Americans don't care about other people like good God (their god) fearing citizens.
It's very hard to see things clearly and to help people see things clearly when they've been indoctrinated so heavily in one way or the other (and of course everyone has their own bias no matter how small).
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Well, I don't think anyone is going to accuse Australia of stinginess!
The Leader, now that He has returned, is talking about 'hundreds of millions of pounds' of aid. Although given that Our Glorious Government is now playing catch up with the public, I don't know how likely that'll be.
Also: The perils of historical ignorance...
quote: Tony Blair faced acute embarrassment yesterday after his offer of a company of Gurkhas to help Indonesia cope with the effects of the tsunami disaster was immediately rejected.
The Gurkhas were the main force deployed by the British against Indonesian forces who tried to take over Brunei in the early 1960s, fighting off a series of incursions.
Mr Blair's gaffe was made worse by the fact that the troops on offer were from the 2nd Bn the Royal Gurkha Rifles, which, as a result of its service, is still funded by the Sultan of Brunei to defend his country.
The Prime Minister, just back from holiday in Egypt, had hoped to defuse the criticism he faced by not cutting short his break to head Britain's aid effort and articulate the nation's feelings about the disaster.
He made the troops offer after chairing the daily meeting of the Government's South-East Asia emergency committee for the first time on Tuesday.
The Indonesian embassy in London questioned why he should want to send troops to the devastated province of Aceh when medical help and cash were urgently needed.
"What happened in Aceh is a pure humanitarian issue," a spokesman said. "Indonesia does not want to make it look like a military issue. If the Government wants to help, it should send doctors not troops."
In his first media appearance since the catastrophe, Mr Blair told the Radio 4 Today programme that the Government was doing everything it could and that it would outstrip the "immensely generous" donations from the public, now more than �76 million.
He promised that Government aid would rise from the �50 million already pledged to "several hundred million pounds" over the next few weeks.
Mr Blair has been angered by Tory criticism of the Government's response and defended his decision to stay on holiday after the scale of the crisis became clear. He said he had been kept fully informed while at his retreat on the Red Sea.
Asked whether his doctors had insisted on a long rest, he refused to answer.
"I took the view that the important thing was to get the job done," he said. The most important thing was "action not words".
The Ministry of Defence, explaining the decision to offer Gurkhas, said the 2nd Bn was "close at hand".
A spokesman said: "Given the dire situation, it was an offer we thought the Indonesians would take up."
Indonesia has accepted the help of Australian and American troops in Aceh. It has also accepted the offer of two British helicopters to add to the two on board the Royal Navy frigate Chatham.
The RAF has supplied two C17 and one C130 transport aircraft and the MoD said about 400 British military personnel were involved. More than 13,000 US military personnel are involved, including 12,000 aboard ships and 1,000 in Thailand. There are also US military personnel in Sri Lanka, Indonesia and Malaysia.
The Gurkhas were the main British force used during the four-year "confrontation", which began in 1962 when President Sukarno of Indonesia sought to prevent the absorption of the former British colonies in Borneo into Malaysia.
He had wanted to take the whole of Borneo into Indonesia and when Brunei hesitated over whether to join Malaysia, he saw his chance and sent forces across the border as the so-called North Kalimantan National Army. For the next four years the Gurkhas were engaged in operations against units of the Indonesian regular army in Sabah and Sarawak.
One member of the regiment won the Victoria Cross for his bravery in Sarawak on Nov 21, 1965.
Today Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, will represent the G8, of which Britain is president, at an international conference on the tsunami in the Indonesian capital Jakarta. Hilary Benn, the International Development Secretary, is to visit Aceh as well as Sri Lanka.
The Foreign Office announced that 41 Britons were now confirmed dead and 158 missing. More than 150,000 people are believed to have died.
As Australia became the largest donor by raising its pledge to �406 million and German aid was raised from �14 million to �353 million, a senior EU official said that countries should not treat the aftermath as a "beauty contest".
Louis Michel, the humanitarian assistance commissioner, said they should focus on pledges they could fulfil.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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quote: As Australia became the largest donor by raising its pledge to �406 million and German aid was raised from �14 million to �353 million, a senior EU official said that countries should not treat the aftermath as a "beauty contest".
Louis Michel, the humanitarian assistance commissioner, said they should focus on pledges they could fulfil.
Um the EU can got and royally beguck itself! For crying out loud citizens of that so-called 'union' encountered the heaviest death-toll of visitors to the countries affected by the Tsunami! How short-sighted they are. These are the same countries that delightfully accepted all that aid in re-building their homelands after both world wars??
Australia is committed to $1 billion - $500 million direct financial aide, $500 in loads tax free for the next 40 years to Indonesia.
They are after all our closest (geographically) and largest neighbour.
America and the EU should stop worrying about the "politics" of the situation. This isn't about politics - it's about humans helping humans. It's an unfathomable amount of devestation and loss of life - over 150,000 people dead (possibly more) - villages, homes, towns raised off the face of the earth? Millions homless, starving, susceptible to disease - people losing their limbs to infection, thousands upon thousands of orphans (who also now are in danger of being taken away and being exploited - oh dear.
Some other things. Anyone see the man who survived on a tree 150km West of Aceh for 8 days. His child alerted him to the approaching wave and he went to the second story - then he watched as his family and himself were washed out to see. Several people survived with him on or around the tree for at least 2 days - and he watched them die and float away. He encountered a man in a pot - they talked for a day - he decided to make for shore. The man was picked up by a Japanese cargo ship!
There are also two dolphins that were swept into a stagnant pool by the tsunami!! They have today just gotten the mother out - but they are still trying with her calf.
I also saw in the paper today about the people who live on the Sentinel Islands South of the Andaman and Icobar islands - they are a 'primative' group who have lived their for something like 14,000 years - they don't let anyone on their islands - they attack with arrows. There is a shot of a naked Sentinelese man firing an arrow at a passing Helicopter. Marco Polo visited those islands! Anyway they reckon a number have survived because they can read the air, the wind and the ocean and probably could tell what was approaching!!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote: Um the EU can got and royally beguck itself! For crying out loud citizens of that so-called 'union' encountered the heaviest death-toll of visitors to the countries affected by the Tsunami! How short-sighted they are. These are the same countries that delightfully accepted all that aid in re-building their homelands after both world wars??
Oh, if only they would go and beguck themselves (I'm not entirely sure what that means but it sounds unpleasant)! I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the Eurocrats say. No one else does. Except DEFRA, but that's another story..
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Kofi Annan said the same thing ("this isn't a beauty contest" were his words). So the UN should beguck itself too.
If some Euro kommissar speaks, remember that he usually DOES NOT speak for the EU citizens, thank you very much. The EU and it's members have donated more money to relief funds than the US, and we are certainly not 'short-sighted'. Our governments may be a bit blunt, but there are countless of private actions collecting money, ranging from local pubs to large companies.
posted
Well, at this point it's all coming down to what the various governments hope to get in return - redevelopment contracts and so forth. Or all those hotels and resorts in Thailand - they're going to be ailing financially, prime targets for being bought out by big chains.
posted
I read an intresting letter to the Miami Herald today: It pointed out that while the Tsunami relief efforts are extremely imporntant, over 300,000 are dead in the Darfur region- women there live in constant fear of rape and murder, children are homeless, medical aid in nonexistant and bodies go unburied- but there's no international relief fund to rebuild that region.
Sucks that this is the only thing getting the aid it needs as some (seem) to want to out-donate their fellow countries.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Where are people getting this 'countries are trying to out-donate other countries' competition? The are a lot of cynical people here. This is the largest humanitarian effort in recent memory. The more countries can give - the better! As I said before Indonesia is Australia's closest neighbour - what sort of neighbour would one be if they didn't aid people in their region?
Jason, the official death toll of all 12 affected countries has currently risen to 160,000. I don't know where they got 300,000 people dead in just one province from?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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