quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Jason, the official death toll of all 12 affected countries has currently risen to 160,000. I don't know where they got 300,000 people dead in just one province from?
It's not part of the Tsunami devestation, Andrew- it's a genocidal one.
Really, it seems that quite a lot of money has been donated, but little has been done to resolve the situation. ...and it's not in the news anymore at all (here anyway).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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That situation just pisses me off. Every week, headlines are "UN says Darfur genocide REALLY NEEDS TO STOP NOW". For months.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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Cartman
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There's not a lot of oil in Sudan, is there? Or contracts to be had, or an easily visible dictator to be disposed, or anything of remote interest to the civilized Western world. Like there wasn't in Rwanda. Just a bunch of sandniggers with nothing to offer in return. Who cares if they wipe each other out?
Wait, was that too cynical?
(Now, obviously, the above ignores several facts, such as the Byzantine complexity of the Darfur conflict or the prominent role of the US in UNAMIR, but I think the point stands.)
"Where are people getting this 'countries are trying to out-donate other countries' competition?"
Well, gee, maybe RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD?
"This is the largest humanitarian effort in recent memory."
Yes, it is. And that's why this goddamn pissing contest of yours is really, really, REALLY bad form, GET IT? Australia isn't a fucking football team to cheer for because it scored more touchdowns than everyone else, it's just one country among many helping out. Accept that, and we can all live happily ever after.
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Jason, the official death toll of all 12 affected countries has currently risen to 160,000. I don't know where they got 300,000 people dead in just one province from?
It's not part of the Tsunami devestation, Andrew- it's a genocidal one.
Ooops! Sorry Jason. Yes, a friend from Africa told me that the fighting in Sudan is basically - when boiled down between different skin-colours! Crazy. I'm sure there are other things to it than that though. And rightly so - it should stop.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: "Where are people getting this 'countries are trying to out-donate other countries' competition?"
Well, gee, maybe RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD?
"This is the largest humanitarian effort in recent memory."
Yes, it is. And that's why this goddamn pissing contest of yours is really, really, REALLY bad form, GET IT? Australia isn't a fucking football team to cheer for because it scored more touchdowns than everyone else, it's just one country among many helping out. Accept that, and we can all live happily ever after.
Top shelf stuff there Cartman. Maybe I just like to put out there that there are countries in the world other than the Holier-than-thou States of South Canada that give a shit about things in the world. I know you'd never hear it from CNN or BBC World or Fox *spit* News. And maybe I feel proud that we are - a small nation - doing a lot more for our neighbours than a lot of other more wealthier and affluent nations - like most of the G8. Even New Zealand - if you go by that statistics site that is linked a few threads back has donated more per GDP than the US. Another cynically said that the more money the country puts in the more it wants stakes in re-building those countries... I think it's more a fact of - trying to save lives - cause for all the hundreds of thousands died by a few fucking big waves there are millions more who are at risk of dying - having no where to live, nothing to eat, no clean water, disease - the list goes on.
Not a pissing contest Cartman - call it pride.
Andrew
P.S. - we don't 'touch down' here in Australia - we don't wear padding and helmets.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
The German government has upped its donation to 500 million Euros, which at the current exchange rate would be around 660 million US-Dollars. Add to that the 180 million Euros that came from private donations up to now and you have a German effort of around 900 million dollars. That's almost 11 dollars per citizen!
Actually I think it's not very smart of our government to pledge such a large amount in one go as it will undoubtedly increase the risk of the money getting lost in dark channels intstead of helping those in need.
Oh, and if any of you Non-EU-members hear a EU commisioner say something - you can be 100% SURE that what he says does NOT reflect the opinion of the European public in any way.
Fuck the EU, fuck the Brussel Eurocrats! They are a nightmare and completely unneeded. I would love to get rid of each and every one ot them!!!
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote: I know you'd never hear it from CNN or BBC World or Fox *spit* News. And maybe I feel proud that we are - a small nation - doing a lot more for our neighbours than a lot of other more wealthier and affluent nations - like most of the G8.
But it is on BBC at least. And you have made the point several times. I don't think anyone's been criticising Australia; given that Australia is the major regional power it's not all that surprising that Australia is being so generous. I think Cartman was mainly having ago at you for posting several 'Australia is now donating X more than the US/everyone else' and then saying that the 'pissing contest' is getting out of hand.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
This thread is surprisingly controversial.
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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Yeah. Sorry about that.
"Maybe I just like to put out there that there are countries in the world other than the Holier-than-thou States of South Canada that give a shit about things in the world."
That's all fine and well, but I think people out there are better served by what is actually being done, concretely and collectively, than by repeated totally misplaced utterances of national pride and patriotism over who has the thickest pocketbook.
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quote:Originally posted by Omega: That situation just pisses me off. Every week, headlines are "UN says Darfur genocide REALLY NEEDS TO STOP NOW". For months.
I was pissed about them saying that...what?...eight? Nine months ago?
I think there's a fear of getting into the kind of tactical quagmire the US is in (in Iraq, of course).
It also underlines the limits of the UN to do more than shout if the military powers of the security Council dont want to get involved. I'm not UN bashing here- it's just sad that the only solution to this is military intervention and it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
It reminds me of the almost two years of reports of mass graves in Bosnia before the problem got nightly attention on the news (ABC got the first U.S. reporters there, IIRC) and public opinion swayed to the point where the President (then Clinton) called for military action.
As though he did not know what was going on before then.
Worse still: the papers here carry NOTHING on the darfur region at all, but there's a biiig story each time some hollywood actor gets involved in Tsunami Relief (DiCaprio's mug was splashed acroos the "People" page in this week's [/i]Sun Sentinel).
Mabye frightened arabs are not as photogenic.
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: There's not a lot of oil in Sudan, is there? Or contracts to be had, or an easily visible dictator to be disposed, or anything of remote interest to the civilized Western world. Like there wasn't in Rwanda. Just a bunch of sandniggers with nothing to offer in return. Who cares if they wipe each other out?
Fuck Cartman, you make it sound as though the US is the only country capable of intervention there.
I'd pay real money to see France or Russia do anything even remotely humanitarian there.
Why bother when they wait for the US to intervene -too late- and snipe at the US from safety, right? It's keeping Chirac in office.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Sure: just get the UN to unite them in a common cause first and then it'll be the year 3000 and....
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What about a UN-led contingent of African nations!?!
Well, that would be slightly more likely if any countries other than Kenya and South Africa had armed forces with decent peace keeping training. Not to mention the money issue.
quote: I'd pay real money to see France or Russia do anything even remotely humanitarian there.
The French don't really have sufficient capacity to do anything; their armed forces are only marginally less overstretched than ours and interventions like this are expensive. And so you really want Russian conscripts blundering around the place?
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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Not really, no. It's just irksome that everyone knows the UK/US will (eventually) get involved as part of a UN "solution" and half of the critics will scream about supposed US imperilistic leanings and the other half will will scream we did not act sooner because there was no oil there or whatever....
Meanwhile, the news' big soundbite-question is "will this outpouring of aid to a mostly muslim improve how muslims view America?" while ignoring that the critics in muslim countries will be shouting about the dead in Darfur.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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