posted
I dont think that its unworkable. It's just not needed right now.
For example Israel has mandatory service and a good system for it. But in this country we really have to step back and plan this well. As always the first step here is going to be the hardest.
I think that if this had any chance of passing it was back in the months after 9/11.
Public support for this is going to be hard to come by because its simply not needed right now.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I know that Germany also has mandatory military service (last I heard, anyway) -- although objectors can opt for 3 years of civil service instead of 2 years (or 18 months?) of military duty.
Still, the idea is simply so boneheaded that it won't work. This guy's apparent goal is to make the Congressmen more reluctant to move towards war. And yet he's using the public as his tool for that.
As a private citizen, I'm already opposed to any potential war with Iraq under the current circumstances. Why should I be forced to sign up for the military to help prove a point to the other lawmakers, when I already agree?
The sad thing is that there will still be loopholes wherever we go. And this will do nothing but fuck up the lives of so many people who do not believe in a current need to join the military. A peacetime draft is simply a greater provocation for war rather than a reason against it. And the draft itself is primarily a method for organizing the recruiting of additional military personnel in times of extreme need -- it's not a political weapon for government games on Capitol Hill.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
It would give us a huge inactive reserve force that is already trained, but that would be secondary, since there are people now that can be pulled for the jobs, the only jobs with no civilian counterpart are combat positions.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
"When they change our way of life, they have won"
Well - if this isn't changing your way of life...
Noone is about to invade your country. Terrorism isn't fought (ahem, at home) with an Army. The Iraq thing sorta sprang up from no-where. Why not try promoting a need for less dependence on oil?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Watch it, Exxon, Shell, BP, Texaco, etc... they have spies everywhere....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
"I think, if we went home and found out that there were families concerned about their kids going off to war, there would be more cautiousness and a more willingness to work with the international community than to say, 'Our way or the highway.' "
NO, you'd never have thought that any family wouldn't be concerned about thier husbands, fathers, or children going off to war in some dustbowl country.
I sound sarcastic, but who is this guy? Who wouldn't be concerned about family members going to war? It has this guy never had a family member in the military? Cause it sounds like he hasn't experienced the concern of your parent, child, or sibling one day going to war, and maybe dying for whatever reasons happen to start said war. My older brother joined the RCAF right before the whole Kosovo thing. My whole family worried that he'd be sent down there. But thankfully he didn't
BTW, Happy New Year. How can it be happy with all this war talk going on? just a thought...
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
For another witness statement on conscription, our little Finland has mandatory military service for able-bodied native males from age 18 up, and volunteer service for other ages, states of healt, genders and nationalities. Once you're in, these distinctions disappear. Duration of service ranges from mere 6 months for basic grunts to 12 for specialists and for reserve noncoms and officers. A 13-month civilian service is mandatory to those who turn down military service for whatever reason (one need not specify the reason in any way). There are a number of political prisoners who refuse even this type of service, but I personally don't feel particularly sorry for them.
OTOH, we also have a policy of not fighting outside our current national borders. Except as a properly mandated part of UN forces, and that doesn't involve the conscripts in any way - you have to be career military if you want to join the volunteer UN troops.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of the US situation. Americans won't be fighting much *within* their national borders... A small country also virtually has to resort to massive drafting in a military crisis, so it only makes sense to have all the draftees pretrained in things military (even if it is only for six months).
The previously mentioned problems with conscription aren't all that severe. Motivation is generally very high, especially as modern Finland mainly has a history of moderately successful defensive warfare. (Even back when we were Swedish mercenaries, motivation was relatively high, thanks to all the loot ) Physical fitness of draftees is abysmal, but then again, so is that of volunteers nowadays. And psychologically, I'd rather share a foxhole with a draftee than with a career soldier - and I'm sure the career soldier would share the sentiment!
Professional military forces have had a hard time taking root in those places of Europe where they aren't historically secure - even in the comfort-conscious democracies and parliamentary monarchies of the north, mainly because the national population simply isn't big enough to provide a credible volunteer force. You'd have to be the size of Germany or France or Poland to have a large professional force and not collapse your economy.
posted
I dunno about the US but I know that the British military is strongly opposed to any kind of conscription, except in times of war. They are professionals and intend to stay that way. Which is why we have the best trained forces in the world.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
The Brits that were partying in Graffenwoerh(sp) had a habit of drinking on the barracks, falling off, running to the ladder, climbing up, and starting over....
I'll give you that they have hard heads.....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Yeah look how peaceful Israel is. ...nothing like every screwball in your whole country knowing how to use heavy ordance and being trained to kill. Smart. Imagine the thousands disturbed people n every major city with that kind of training. Fun City.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
Liberation armies in the making.
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Hmm... of course, conversely, you'd have the advantage of all those potential whackos having gone through some sort of physical and psychological screening at some poitn, which could conceivably be a good thing...
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
I agree. Not everybody who is eligible for mandatory military service will for sure get into the military. It'd be intellegent to have some screening measures in place to keep the disturbed people away from guns and some other explosive/dangerous objects.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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quote:Originally posted by Da_bang80: It'd be intellegent to have some screening measures in place to keep the disturbed people away from guns and some other explosive/dangerous objects.
...by legal means, at any rate.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
) Physical fitness of draftees is abysmal, but then again, so is that of volunteers nowadays. And psychologically, I'd rather share a foxhole with a draftee than with a career soldier - and I'm sure the career soldier would share the sentiment!![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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