"No, I don't own a weapon, except for kitchen cutlery... I can't say I like them anymore, but I HATE the idea of forcing ones will upon another...."
So, anarchy is the way for you, then, eh?
Every law in existence ever has been the forcing of someone's will onto someone else. Should be repeal all laws against murder, rape, etc. simply because there will always be someone out there who will want to do those things, and we can't force our wills on them? Except that then we're letting them force their will on someone. If someone wants to kill you, and you don't want to be killed, one of you is going to have to force your will onto the other. There's no possibility that both of you can have your way.
So, if a will needs to be forced somewhere, I say let it be the one that doesn't make people die needlessly. And banning these guns to make it harder for the crackpots to get them seems a perfectly reasonable way to do that.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
TSN, thank you, you are bringing a point up....
Where to draw the line on laws and freedoms...
No, anarchy seems a bit of a pain in the ass...
Instead of more laws education and enforcement of existing laws is the thing to do, to me....
SMGs/automatics and heavy bore sp equipment are already illegal to own....
JA, no offense was taken, since I know how I stand on the issues, only the truth hurts....
The reason I don't fear people killing me with a firearm could be A) I have a very low value on my life and don't care, B) I am a Christian and I am Saved, or, C) the incident rate is very low and I am not worried about it....
I think that here in Port Huron there have only been two occasions in which a firearm was used in a crime, both times in the heat-of-passion, there was malice, but little or no aforethought. Knives, bats, and bricks have been used more often to cause bodily harm. Port Huron has a population of roughly 25,000 and has a good drug and alien trade with Canada....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I grew up in MIami back when we were still "murder Capital of the World" and I never felt the need to carry a gun or own one: even after being involved in a robbery and having one pointed at me. It makes me sick to think that anyone anywhere is a potential victim from the Pope to the kids in ellementary school because guns are so easy to aquire for anyone regardless of their background or level of skill. It's a user -friendly device with no redeeming qualities (like IMac) and each year we don't ban firearms is another decade worth of guns manufactured right here in the United States. The genie will remain out of the proverbial bottle much longer the more we hesitate now.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:In a study released late last month, researchers found that the criminal use of handguns in Britain had increased by almost 40% in three years, to 3,685 incidents from 2,648. The study was sponsored by the Countryside Alliance, which represents farmers, rural landowners and the hunting community.
The Centre for Defence Studies at King's College used national crime statistics to examine the unilateral ban on handguns enacted in 1997. The ban came in response to a school shooting in March 1996 in Dunblane, Scotland, that killed 16 children and their teacher. The shooter had a registered weapon.
quote:A "gun summit" to deal with the unexpected and alarming 35% rise in gun crime in the past 12 months will today provide the launchpad for a sustained government campaign to tackle Britain's burgeoning gun culture. Yesterday's far higher than expected figures showed nearly 10,000 incidents involving firearms in England and Wales in the past 12 months. The Home Office figures put the gun-related death toll at a record 97 murders, with a further 558 serious casualties.
quote:The crime figures show that gun crime has risen every year for four years, with almost 10,000 incidents involving firearms recorded in the 12 months to September 2002.
This startling jump from 7,300 incidents in 2000/01 has been driven by a 46% surge in the use of illegal handguns which are now seen as a "fashion accessory" by some in the inner cities but which will soon attract a minimum five year prison sentence.
quote:The survey shows that guns are now used in 70% of all robberies and has helped to drive the murder rate up to 858, the highest in more than 50 years.
The rate of Washington D.C police officers arrested is 19 per 1000, and the rate of New York City police officers arrested is 3 per 1000. But the rate of Florida concealed handgun permit holders arrested is 0.9 per 1000. Who should we be disarming?
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Well one things for sure: removing the handgun ban in Britan is not going to make the deathtoll go down! It does suck that the ban has not proven effective. I think that the brits need to examine where these guns are coming from? Were they smuggled into the country or were they made prior to the ban? Both alternatives are pretty scary, If there's that much smuggling of firearms into the country then the border is really lax. If the guns were there prior to the ban, then the situation is worse in that no one with ulterior motives (like selling the gun) turned their firearms in and no one fears reprisals of gun posession! Got any stats on the gun's origins?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
One of the articles I read seems to suggest that many guns are being smuggled in via an Eastern European countries - Northern Ireland connection.
Probably others are smuggled in with drug shipments, the same way weapons bans can be defeated over here. "Smith, put some AK-47's in with the coke next time."
quote:no one with ulterior motives (like selling the gun) turned their firearms in and no one fears reprisals of gun posession!
Where I come from, we call these people with ulterior motives "criminals," and we realize that it's pretty ludicrous to expect them to obey the law. Why other people can't seem to grasp that, I don't know.
If the criminals will not turn their guns in when the ban comes, what good is the ban? It only harms the vast majority who would obey the laws in the first place, and makes criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people.
It is therefore bad policy.
quote:Well one things for sure: removing the handgun ban in Britan is not going to make the deathtoll go down!
I don't know how 'for sure' this is. Your own state showed a marked drop in crime when the concealed carry permits came into effect. As have several other locales.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
"It ... makes criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people."
Assuming there are people out there who have never broken a law in their lives, and who happen to be in violation of this law before it exists and choose not to follow it when it does. This, of course, could be true of any law ever put into effect for all time. Obviously, we're not going to stop making laws just because some "law-abiding citizen" out there might be in violation of it and not want to follow it.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
There's a thing called "civil disobedience."
But yes, we will stop passing those laws, when the people they affect number in the many thousands, and they vote.
quote:Assuming there are people out there who have never broken a law in their lives, and who happen to be in violation of this law before it exists and choose not to follow it when it does.
Like Prohibition.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
I think another issue that should be brought up while were talking about guns for protection is Gun Education.
Sure anyone will think: "Gee, if I get a gun, then I just point one end at the bad guy and pull the trigger." But there's more to it. (Some guns are quite a bit more sophisticated) If a person is just a bad marksman,or they just don't know how to use a gun, then what's to stop that person from missing the bad guy, and accidentally shooting an innocent, then probably getting killed or wounded by the bad guy? (Whose now probably going to be more aggressive towards you now)
There is Drivers ED to teach someone how to properly control a vehicle so they are not a menace to others. So it's only logical for people who want to own a firearm to take a course on how to properly operate one. and maintain one. So they can shoot thier intented target, and not someone or something else. And be able to maintain thier gun so there's less chance of it jamming, or misfiring.
I think there SHOULD be mandatory gun education courses for anyone who wishes to own a firearm. Of course how that's going to be enforced is beyond me, if they can't even get a ban to work. Or gun registration, which is a big issue up here in Canada right now.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
Not unless you've got an impossible degree of enforcement, it won't.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
EC, the Brits have certainly made sure that no new weapons get in to the hands of new/aspiring criminals, with weapons related crimes going UP....
Do you realize exactly how big this country is??? That is way we are having a miserable time stopping the drug trade, the borders are enormous. I'd cite you a mileage number, but I have no time to look it up as I have to get ready for work, maybe later.
A ban is not the answer, education is, metal detectors in weapons free locations, bars being one, hotels, places where people gather in reasonably large groups. There are other, better, alternatives than a ban that would be the beginning of the end, when used in conjuction with the Homeland Security....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged
quote: EC, the Brits have certainly made sure that no new weapons get in to the hands of new/aspiring criminals, with weapons related crimes going UP....
There's a big fuss at the moment about how replica and decommissioned guns are being modified in order to fire real bullets. Replicas and decommissioned guns were not banned in the original Act, but I think the government will introduce an amendment bill. The crime rate involving guns has gone up dramatically in the last few years; the murder rate with guns is still one hell of a lot lower here than in the US though (1 in a million compared to 44 in a million- according to the UN). The few functioning weapons are mainly coming in from Eastern Europe, as are many decommissioned guns that are then recommissioned over here.
I think it's quite interesting how many US states are considering a ban on outside smoking (and possibly on smoking full stop) on the grounds that there is a health risk, but not guns which are considerably more lethal.
quote: If something like this were to come into force over in the UK I'd tell Tony Blair to shove it up his ass and shed his blood for peace rather than everyone else's
If The Dear Leader tried something like this in peacetime, then I imagine the military would do that for you...
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged
Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
The replica guns are totaly incapable of firing live ammunition (That's why they're replicas). The dimensions of the chamber and barrel are off by a few millimeters (But not enough to make the replica look wrong). And it would be impossible to replace the those parts with real ones. Although deactivated firearms are another story. Maybe a very skilled machinist may be able to fix a replica to fire live ammunition. But I wouldn't think so. Besides there are alot less replica firearms than real firearms out there anyways.
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
