quote:Why are'nt we tackling the problem of indiscriminate killing here at home at all? Political contrubutions and the NRA is why. Let's see this fuck-o from NY call for a mandatory firearms ban: never happen.
Also because the availability of weapons seems to have bugger-all to do with the homicide rate, otherwise Norway and Canada would have pretty much similar rates to ours.
It is, sad to say, probably our culture at large, not our "gun culture," which causes this problem.
quote: 99% of people with weapons permits are the last possible people you'd want to have them!
99.99% of statistics "quoted" in this manner are unadulterated crap. I'm betting this one is, too.
It's amazing, the sheer number of lunkheads who actually seem to believe that societal pacifism is viable while predators exist. Dude, tell it to the antelope. He lives by running away, and when he can't run, he dies.
You cannot HAVE freedom if you are not willing to defend it. When you expect others to defend you, you are giving them power over you. Sometimes, power extending to life-and-death decisions.
You might have missed it but, those model ships you build? They have phaser strips and photon torpedo launchers. Even in Utopia.
Be real. If you want to make comparisons then find me civillians in the trek universe with phasers. There are none. Starfleet is the Federation's equivalent of the military and there is no need of police- they've outgrown the attitude you expressed. I think you'll find that nobody is killed by a stray phaser blast in Trek. Civillians have no phasers or any personal weapons. It's much more difficult to take a life if you have to look a person in the eye....not just point a small killing machine at them and click their life away like it's a TV station you don't want to watch. That's why handguns should be illeagal. If someone that bought a handgun for protection from one of these "preadator" boogeymen you speak of gets really pissed at the guy that just flipped him off, he'll be much more likely to do something stupid if all he has to do is point and shoot. The old adage of "if handguns are outlawed, only outlaws will have handguns" has been bandied about by the NRA for years while the inncoent bystander deathtoll has grown exponentially. Explain your attitude to parents of kids that get shot at school by other kids showing off their guns.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:I think you'll find that nobody is killed by a stray phaser blast in Trek.
Riva's chorus. Sisko's wife. The Colonists on Cestus III. Any civilians the Borg assimilated.
quote:Civillians have no phasers or any personal weapons.
Even the pacifist who turned out to be a douwd had one, although it was non functional. Guinan had a rifle. Quark had access to weapons.
quote: If someone that bought a handgun for protection from one of these "preadator" boogeymen you speak of gets really pissed at the guy that just flipped him off, he'll be much more likely to do something stupid if all he has to do is point and shoot.
My brother and father have both displayed firearms to ward off "boogeymen" as you so foolishly call them. They exist.
quote: The old adage of "if handguns are outlawed, only outlaws will have handguns" has been bandied about by the NRA for years while the inncoent bystander deathtoll has grown exponentially.
An unabashed lie, "exponentially" is. It's not even going up. It's been going down for years. Moreso in places which encourage carry permits.
quote: Explain your attitude to parents of kids that get shot at school by other kids showing off their guns.
It's already illegal for kids to have guns. Adding a new law won't help. Most of those guns were obtained illegally in the first place.
You probably don't know that since the handgun ban in England, handgun crime there has actually risen. Bad guys don't care about another law to break.
Quit swallowing propaganda and start actually looking for facts. You may be surprised.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:I think you'll find that nobody is killed by a stray phaser blast in Trek.
Riva's chorus. Sisko's wife. The Colonists on Cestus III. Any civilians the Borg assimilated None of wich were killed by other federation citizens and were all killed in an act of war by outside agressors.
quote:Civillians have no phasers or any personal weapons.
Even the pacifist who turned out to be a douwd had one, although it was non functional. Guinan had a rifle. Quark had access to weapons.
The Dowd was not a Federation citizen and Worf allowing Guinan to have a big 'ol rifle was just bad writing......not that she's a Fed. citizen either (likely).
quote: If someone that bought a handgun for protection from one of these "preadator" boogeymen you speak of gets really pissed at the guy that just flipped him off, he'll be much more likely to do something stupid if all he has to do is point and shoot.
My brother and father have both displayed firearms to ward off "boogeymen" as you so foolishly call them. They exist..[/QUOTE] ...and it's lucky that they themselves were'nt hurt or killed in armed conflict.
quote: The old adage of "if handguns are outlawed, only outlaws will have handguns" has been bandied about by the NRA for years while the inncoent bystander deathtoll has grown exponentially.
An unabashed lie, "exponentially" is. It's not even going up. It's been going down for years. Moreso in places which encourage carry permits.[/QUOTE] You may be right: it may be holding steady or even slightly declining, but even one innocent death is reason enough to change things.
quote: Explain your attitude to parents of kids that get shot at school by other kids showing off their guns.
It's already illegal for kids to have guns. Adding a new law won't help. Most of those guns were obtained illegally in the first place.[/QUOTE] It is illeagal but manufacturers make thousands of handguns each year, making it easy for even kids to obtain one. You probably don't know that since the handgun ban in England, handgun crime there has actually risen. Bad guys don't care about another law to break. [/QUOTE] Possibly due to a lack of the law's enforcement. At least they're doing something! Here in America we conviently look the other way.The fact is that handguns kill and until people like you give up the giddy sense of power that having a gun gives you, we'll all be forced to repeat the cycle of fear and violence that comes with the firearms obsession.
Quit swallowing propaganda and start actually looking for facts. You may be surprised. [/QUOTE] The fact is that handguns kill and until people like you give up the giddy sense of power that having a gun gives you, we'll all be forced to repeat the cycle of fear and violence that comes with the firearms obsession.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Actually, I was kinda in a rush at work and that seemed to be the easiest way.... ...thesystem here is a bit diffrent than what I'm used to at SSM's forums. I'll be more discreet next time.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
You know, out of the hundreds, if not thousands, of weapons I've watched, not a single one to date as killed anyone.
These weapons range from ity-bity 5.56mm rifles to 203mm howitzers, so there is a wide variation on which I do draw my conclusion that anyone that thinks a weapons kills is leaning towards be a propaganda fed dolt....
But that is just my opinion....
and, further, I do wish people would get it through their heads that a weapon of any type, is a TOOL, similier to a cigarette lighter or a car, both of which have been used to kill people...
Lighters have started fires that have killed people, and during the last ban-the-bomb thread a woman used her car to drive in to a building in the Gaylord, MI area to kill her passengers...
Ban weapons for common people to use, fuck education, then what to ban next, books??? the 'net??? Both can be used to spread bad ideas pertaining to the murder and maiming of any ethnic group you want to search for....
You know, working 7 days a week, 10 to 12 hours a day, for the last 7 weeks this Sunday has really made me irritable....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"You cannot HAVE freedom if you are not willing to defend it."
That's the crux, isn't it? You, The Guardian Of Justice, The Valiant Defender Of Freedom and The American Way, vs. The Evil Menace To Society.
It's hilarious how you seem to think you'd MATTER if push came to shove. Which (SUPARHEROES WIHT JUSTICE POWARS take note) it hasn't for the past two centuries, and is not going to.
"When you expect others to defend you, you are giving them power over you."
You must have a DEEP hatred for the military, then.
"I do wish people would get it through their heads that a weapon of any type, is a TOOL"
Right. A tool to KILL.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
"Ban weapons for common people to use, fuck education, then what to ban next, books???"
It'd have to be a pretty biiig fucking book to kill someone!
"Guns are TOOLS!"
For what? You sure can't garden with them. Tools for killing is right.
You've watched thousands of guns? Where? Gun shows? Were they next to all the Nazi propaganda that is invariably at those shows? Mabye you watched something on TV too often.....Red Dawn?
"You know, working 7 days a week, 10 to 12 hours a day, for the last 7 weeks this Sunday has really made me irritable...."
...so you're tired, irritable and own firearms? ((shudder))
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
No, you see I was an infantryman for 10 years, so I have been trained to use these fun little things you call 'guns'... I haven't been to a gun show in all my years, so that's out....
So have have watched all of these weapons systems while on guard duty, in the field, etc... Never has one killed anyone, much like you can watch a rake. It won't rake anything without some help...
No, I don't own a weapon, except for kitchen cutlery... I can't say I like them anymore, but I HATE the idea of forcing ones will upon another....
Speaking of which, you make the insinuation I am a Nazi,or believe some sort of Nazi propaganda, and you want to control the way people behave and what they can and can not own???
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Pistol, in the ep. where she out shoots Worf in the holodeck, much to Worf's dismay....
A civilian outshooting a security officer, oh, the horror...
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
"Night Terrors" the bar crowd gets rowdy, Guinan pulls out a phaser rifle and shoots the ceiling. probably one of the most memorable Guinan moments.
Registered: Sep 2001
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You probably don't know that since the handgun ban in England, handgun crime there has actually risen. Bad guys don't care about another law to break.
Quit swallowing propaganda and start actually looking for facts. You may be surprised.
True. And on this subject, where'd you get the "handgun crime in the UK since the ban" has risen thing from anyway? From what I recall, it went down drastically, and has only gone back up in the past year or two.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Ritten: A) No, you see I was an infantryman for 10 years, so I have been trained to use these fun little things you call 'guns'... I haven't been to a gun show in all my years, so that's out....
B)So have have watched all of these weapons systems while on guard duty, in the field, etc... Never has one killed anyone, much like you can watch a rake. It won't rake anything without some help...
C)No, I don't own a weapon, except for kitchen cutlery... I can't say I like them anymore, but I HATE the idea of forcing ones will upon another....
D)Speaking of which, you make the insinuation I am a Nazi,or believe some sort of Nazi propaganda, and you want to control the way people behave and what they can and can not own???
A) You were in the MILITARY! There are so many controlls and safeguards aganst weapons going missing or being misused that it negates the point. I'm not speaking about the military, they by definition, need guns to prorect and serve- as do police officers. I'm talking about civilians owning firearms.
B)See point A), but any inanimate object has the same properties: it's the hotheads and nutjobs in the general populace that should be restricted in their ability to have firearms. I live in a state where it's easy to geta concealed weapons permit (at least prior to 9/11) but totally illeagal to carry a pocket knife with a blade longer than the width of your palm! Senseless.
C)I agree with that sentiment, and I'm not advocating governmental control (something I loathe)but you don't feel that a gun is required to protect yourself, so why should others? Fear and firearms is very bad combonation. Lots of people buy a handgun after being involved or hearing of a dangerous situation: a lot of gun accidents start off that way. There's not even a standardized gun-locking mechanism law from state to state-thanks to the NRA. What a bunch of swell guys.
D)No, I don't think you're a nazi and I meant no personal offense. If you've ever been to a gun show, you'd see guys waving the nazi flag all over and buying LOTS of high powered ordanince that has no use other than killing humans. Nobody hunts a deer with a submachine gun or needs one to protect his home. The "Red dawn" crack was a bit out of line, but that's exactly the kind of mentality these gun show pyschos have. I certainly DO want to control at LEAST the kinds of guns people can own! Whats wrong with that: we already have numerous half-assed weapons restrictions that don't work. Again, I see no good reason for anyone to have a assult rifile. That is not "full auto" but can be converted with an easily obtainable kit from those shows amkes it even scarier. Would you feel safe if you new neighbors has those kinds of weapons? Not me, man.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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