posted
What democratic government? They went for over a year with no government at all. Now they have one that was appointed by an invading army. Now, if they even have elections next year, the people in charge say that as much as a quarter of the eligible population may not get to vote, and they don't care.
Where does democracy enter into that?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Wow. Thats amazing, I used to think that only people on FoxNews used to speak like that. Way to absorb.
Well, he's stating that he'd be "doing the same thing" while conviently ignoring the violence and destruction heaped on the adverage (non-comabtant) Iraqi populace by these so-called "rebels". I doubt Daryus or any Flarite would be doing those henious acts....for any supposed "cause".
These guys are not fighting for their freedom- they're just establishing their power via violence during the government's infantcy.
I'm not defending AKB1979's "nuke 'em all" statements, only pointing out the obvious fallacy in Daryus' argument.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by TSN: What democratic government? They went for over a year with no government at all. Now they have one that was appointed by an invading army. Now, if they even have elections next year, the people in charge say that as much as a quarter of the eligible population may not get to vote, and they don't care.
Where does democracy enter into that?
It's at least a start: leaving now owuld allow Al Saudr (sp?) to establish a theocracy in short order.
I said they have a chance at democracy: they have to want it. That means not turning a blind eye to violence and terrorist acts as much as it does showing up nad being allowed to vote.
Who knows? We may see additional UN aid (and they'll definitely be monitoring the elections under a microscope) ...and along with a change in US leadership, progress can be made.
If the Iraqi's want it.
All the good intentions and oversight in the world wont mean dick if they decide to become a theocracy or dictatorship again. But they'll get to decide for the first time ever.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
"They" being anyone who just happens to have the good fortune to live outside the particularly violent areas...
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
"They" being anyone that wants to live without those "particularly violent areas". The people IN thos violent areas need to report information that could save lives and bring these killers to justice.
How long do you think the violence would continue if it was not in some way condoned in those areas?
What few Iraqi police there are are targets of both the insurgents (terrorists), and indirectly by the people they're protecting -by the people's fear or apathy to make a stand- or even a phone call to the police when they have information.
Each time civillians are killed in one of these "insurgent" attacks the news sow someone blaming the US forces because "they sholuld have been there to protect us", but it comes down to how much violence they'll allow their own countrymen to inflict on them.
Even if the populace were to (non-violently!) speak out against Al Sadur and his violent ways, it would improve the situation markedly- by showing that they DONT want the violence to continue in Iraq- not against the US- or against themselves-the general population. It would also go along way to curb many people's "nuke 'em all!" gut reaction to beheadings and the everyday brutality of the situation.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by TSN: And if they were being nasty to you because white people had been nasty to them first...?
Who's being nasty, the people that have been to me in the past? They were kids who bullied me and kicked the shit out of me! There's no excuse for them to have done that just because they enjoyed it and had a laugh. Oh yes, they enjoyed seeing me on the ground in agony as they repeatedly kicked me in the face, stomach and nuts - FUCKING ARESEHOLES! (Fortunately I managed to protect my nuts after the first occasion so hopefully all is still working there so that I can still have kids).
Oh and if Iraqis started on me I'd tell them to fuck off and then kick the stupid shitty white twat that started it all off a cliff! I might even run a bet for how many times he bounces!
-------------------- If you cant convince them, confuse them.
Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
So you got stomped by fuck-o's. Happens. It's not really something to make a part of your world-view.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
"(Fortunately I managed to protect my nuts after the first occasion so hopefully all is still working there so that I can still have kids)."
I sure hope not...
"What few Iraqi police there are are targets of both the insurgents (terrorists), and indirectly by the people they're protecting -by the people's fear or apathy to make a stand- or even a phone call to the police when they have information."
So, you're saying that, since the people are afraid, it's their own fault they're in such a bad situation?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Why do they automatically "have" to want democracy? What if they actually do want a theocracy?
That's a fairly unfair question though. Everyone is taught that their system is the best one, and that all overs are wrong. And since a lot of your morals and standards come from a society designed around that system, you are going to be biased towards it.
However, it's also very easy to armchair left-wing complain (or whatever) and say stuff like that. "What gives us the right to say that our system is better? What gives us the right to force them to be able to choose who runs their country?" And so on. I am going to go out on a limb and say that, if viewed from as impartial an angle as is possible to achiece, democracy is a "fairer" system that theocracy. You're willing to argue against it if you want, but it'll need to be a convincing argument.
And as for that Catholics comment Tim, seriously, what? Using an example that contains only the vaguest of superficial similarities to the one being discussed is hardly a good argument. You can do better than that.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
1/ You were trying to make an insightful comment on people's apparent right to chose their leaders by comparing Saddam's rule in Iraq to the Pope's "rule" over Catholics.
2/ You were trying to be funny.
If point 1 is true, then it was rubbish. If point 2 is true, then you are rubbish.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
There's no excuse for them to have done that just because they enjoyed it and had a laugh. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Oh yes, they enjoyed seeing me on the ground in agony as they repeatedly kicked me in the face, stomach and nuts - FUCKING ARESEHOLES! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
