posted
You know, I should point out that the US has something like 20 times the population of the Netherlands...problems are 20 times more likely to happen.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "Ou tou kratountos h� polis nomizetai" - Creon
posted
Simply 'gun control' isn't enough.. especially in the states.. where last spring there were 3 shootings in ONE WEEK in SCHOOLS.. Tell me how gun control stopped those kids from getting their mits on a gun.. or two.. or three.
We're talking about a country where it is the constitution RIGHT .. not a priveledge.. but a RIGHT to own and carry a gun dammit !! SO... you have pappa.. who has been cleared to own a gun.. he keeps the freakin' thing in his side desk drawer.. and you have his kid.. a nice kid, tho' a little mis-understood. Now .. I ask all of you.. what is preventing him from getting his hands on that gun????
As a kid, if I wanted to get my hands on some of my ol' man's playboys.. that were supposed to be hidden from my prying eyes.. Well. dammit, I had my buddies over and all we did was go into the closet and look at em.. Kids know where things are.. they snoop.. That's call "Child-like curiosity". It's not called that for nothing.
We can educate our kids.. sure.. Get a seriously mis-understood kid in a class like that.. and you're teaching him the potential destruction he can cause. The power he could invoke over others.. the type of power he wouldn't have unless he had his hands on his dad's gun! .. That is what those kids are doing in those school.. prooving they have that power..
Now.. HOW DO YOU PREVENT THAT??? Bring up your kids right??? NAW... REMOVE THE THREAT.. DON'T OWN A FREAKIN' GUN all together.. get it out of people's head that the even NEED one!!!
Sorry.. I get sooo worked up over this topic.. cuz I hate .. HATE.. sensless killing. It's pointless and a waste..
I've never held a gun in my hands.. EVER.. Never needed it up here in Canada.. (and don't get me wrong.. i'm not trying to slam americans.. more, I'm trying to slam the policies brought forth by their gov't.) anyways..
I know that the dutch have great gun control.. very strict.. I'm happy to hear that... I am.. and I applaud them for being as successful as they have been. I also realize that shootings only happen, what? , , maybe 9 or 10 incidents a year?? But let's have the body count of those shooting, and let's ask ourselve.. how many of these victims could have had productive, and fullfilled life??? That's what gets me so hot about this topic..
But again,, I love the fact that it was brought up here.. The more ideas we bring forth, the better..maybe some politician is a ST fan and comes here and will get an idea too!!
posted
I used to sell guns. I worked in a department store that sold rifles and shotguns. I have always been on the side of less regulation, fewer laws, better for everyone. I've used West Virginia as an example, with it's high ratio of guns to people, and one of the lowest crime rates in the country, but the school shooting are getting to me.
I once dated a woman who had a little girl. I grew so attached to the girl that I still keep in touch with her to this day. She's seventeen now, and in high school. I think of her often, and am scared for her. This is slowly changing my opinion on guns and gun control.
This last kid that went on a shooting spree didn't even seem to have a reason, told the cops he didn't know why he did it. I've been out of school twenty years, and I guess I'm out of touch with the way kids think these days. I just don't nderstand what makes them think that killing is the answer. We had fights, even gag fights, a lot of racial tension, drugs were easy to get, with few people getting caught. You could usually get by with just about anything if you used your head. With 700+ students to watch, they couldn't catch everthing, and for a large part, weren't smart enough to catch us in much.
So where did this come from. I don't buy the movie/Television idea. People have been using that one since movies first began here in the US in the late 1800's. personally, I think it is the way kids are being raised here these days. If I did something wrong, I knew Dad was going to be on my butt the instant he found out about it. Today, parents are afraid to punish kids the way we used to, fearing leaving permanent scars on the soul. My sister lets her kids get by to the point that I started avoiding contact with her family, because the kids drove me up the wall. I was at their house with my parents one evening, when the youngest started acting so badly, that Dad decided to leave, and made no secret why he was leaveing. My sister and her husband laughed about it. I just don't get it.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
posted
AND you've just put your finger on it, Kosh!! The way people are raising their kids.. Now, I'm not a parent myself, but, at the ripe ol' age of 12 my father left my mom for another woman, and I was left to raise my younger brother (6 yrs my junior) and my sister (10 yrs younger). I'd say i've done my share of raising .. maybe not be the same, but I'll tell ya, when my mother went on a drinking spree.. I was on my own..
I still never shot anyone!! (knock wood - jokes)
Up here in Canada, they are about to pass a bill that will take section 43 out of the criminal code... Section 43 states that parents are ALLOWED to use reasonable force when disciplining their kids. Without Section43 in there... it will become a CRIMINAL OFFENSE to spank your child.
and people wonder why kid are going to sh*t in a handbasket!! or they're becoming squeegee kids, washing car windsheilds for a dollar.
People aren't disciplining their kids enough ... so they become mouthy, uncontrollable discontents that go out a blow people away.
But let's not forget.. it's not only kids killing people, there are some adults out there that are just as dangerous. I know that there are some poeple who frequent these threads that are in their teens. And most of you are probly really good people ... You put your energy into a hobby like Star Trek and it will keep you outta trouble.. my parents always thought that 20 years ago!! So I'm not picking on the youth of today. But these kids that go and kill others... Don't represent you good kids very well.
Society has a bad habit of lumping the whole lot of you in one big, bad package.
So.. count yourselves exempted from these comments.
(man I should be a politician) VOTE FOR ALSHRIM DAX FOR PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD.. come on pinky.. we have to TAKE OVER THE WORLD..
------------------ - Alshrim Dax The Other Dax
[This message has been edited by Alshrim Dax (edited December 10, 1999).]
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
One life taken by guns is one life too many. I don't understand how people can continue to defend the use of guns after so many tragedies. Haven't you learned anything? Guns kill. Yes I know, it's not guns but the people who own them but if you make the gun laws stricter so that only certain people can own them, you won't have any Tom, Dick or Harry just going to the grocery store and buying themselves a gun to kill someone with.
I realise that ownership of guns is enshrined in your constitution, but when are people going to realise that this fascination with guns is killing innocent people. The free ownership of guns is a problem and the sooner people realise that and do something about it, the better it'll be for everyone.
This killing in the Netherlands is most likely a copycat killing since it's the first school shooting they've ever had. How many more people are going to have to die before people realise that guns are a problem? God forbid, would it really have to take a member of your own family to be gunned down before you wise up?
------------------ The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. Picard, First Contact
The line has to be drawn here, this far and no further. Quark, Dogs of War
posted
How many people have to die before we realize that copycats and the media that sensationalizes these crimes are the problem?
Bud, you only ever hear about the couple of gun tragedies, because the 2 MILLION times that guns are used in personal defense to STOP a crime each year isn't considered "newsworthy" by the people who control what you see and hear.
I'll let you in on a secret, though... the people who are making discipline and spanking a criminal act.. are the SAME people who are pushing for gun control the hardest. These people want to insure that whatever you do, there are NO consequences. So they create a generation of uncontrollable kids, and when the kids go berserk, they insure that nobody will be able to do anything about it.
And yes, my Dictatorial plans are still there.
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
posted
I'll go back to my original idea. canda, the UK, Holland, Australia, all the places with gun control shoul dkeep it, because it works. If you're attacked in the street, it's hardly ever with a firearm. And when you drop your kids off at school, you don't have to worry about them getting shot.
The US on the other hand is a completly different situation. Gun control wouldn't work now, becaue people have been brought up to believe that owning a gun is their right, but also because the country is saturated with them. They almost do need guns just to protect themselves from other people with guns. The only way gun control would work would be if they managed to remove over 90% of the guns in the country, and that would be impossible. They're in a mess that they can't fix, which is why no other countries should get rid of their gun control, because it will just start them on the same road to every family having two cars and a shotgun under the bed.
------------------ "Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
All of our guns may be in the hands of criminals, but they are still very rarely used to kill the innocent. Compare this to the US where guns are freely available and psychos can buy a gun anywhere and use it to kill innocent school children.
Even if all of our guns are in the hands of criminals, the numbers don't even come close to the shootings you have. At least the innocent aren't being harmed here as much as across the water.
It is a lot safer to live here, and I intend to stay. You're free to throw all the parties you want at this news - I don't care!
------------------ The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. Picard, First Contact
The line has to be drawn here, this far and no further. Quark, Dogs of War
posted
OK, I've found a good explination of the problem. It's in Rush Limbaugh's "See, I Told You So", chapter 11. I recomend you all read his books. Remember a Japanese student that got lost in New Orleans several years ago? He got lost, and when he knocked on someone's door to ask for directions, the man inside shot him because he thought the student was trying to break in. Now liberals would have you believe that the problem was that the man inside had a gun, and that the solution would be to take away that gun. The true problem, however, is that crime is rampant in most major cities, and that the residents in many areas are scared to death of it. Taking away the guns of law-abiding citizins does no good. Crime would still be a huge problem. The only difference would be that the people couldn't defend themselves. But if crime hadn't been running amok, the man with the gun wouldn't have shot the student, because he wouldn't have been afriad that the student was trying to break in. The primary job of government is to protect it's people from threats, be they internal or external, and if the government will not defend it's people, the people must defend themselves. And if the government takes the people's ability to defend themselves, AND refuses to protect them, what recourse do they have? Any suggestions?
And something recently occured to me about something that someone (I think it was 1/2, but I'm not sure) said a while back about Conservatives changing their positions over the years, whereas liberals remain constant. This isn't true. Extreme leftists of 1899 would be called moderates today. Maybe. Today's liberal leaders are socialists, plain and simple, ala Hilary. But that's just the leaders. Most liberals don't even think about it. They just do what their told, ala Bill. Conservatism is always the same. The smallest government possible.
------------------ Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works C/O Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu, Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law 1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza Dis, The Nether Regions
posted
The kid was walking up the driveway, thinking he was at the correct address for the party. The home owner was telling the kid to stop, but the boy didn't speak much english. He was smiling and waveing at the home owner and the fool blew the kid away. The guy should have gone to prison, but it's not illegal to be stupid. The guy got off because he was "defending his home." But that harmless kid is still dead.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
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