Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Orion: BINGO!!!! I agree with you all the way.
Ultra Magnus: BINGO!!!! I agree with you all the way.
And now, *ahem* Omega...... boy oh boy oh boy.......
Look, the kid shouldn't have gotten shot, but taking away the man's gun isn't the solution. What if the kid HAD been trying to break in? Then would you say that he shouldn't have a gun so he can defend himself? If that were the case, he could easily have been hurt or killed. The solution is to ELIMINATE CRIME! That way, the man wouldn't have been afraid for his life, and THEN the kid wouldn't have gotten hurt at all!
Point number 1: That is a VERY offensive remark to say that the kid COULD have been trying to break in. YES the gun should have been taken away. By saying that he should still have his right to keep his gun after committing a crime could legally mean that anyone convicted of an offense with a registered gun could legally get off the hook. You know damn well how these lawyers work.
Point number 2: Eliminate Crime? The best way to do that is to eliminate principal weapons USED in the crime. That means guns. So much for that point.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Kosh: Most of the homeless in this area seem to be homeless by choise. Most of the ones I've been in contact with are drunks, rather then mentally ill. My aunt worked in a church that feed people who were both homeless, or just poor.
Common Misperception, Kosh. Most homeless here are homeless due to unfortunate circumstances, factory closes, abuse, house burned down, etc. Here in Toronto, the Conservative government is trying to make the homeless and the less fortunate our worst enemy, they are the REAL causes of Ontario's problems..... etc....... no wonder why the Conservatives are making life WAY more difficult for them.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
posted
My father, who is, surprisingly enough, a Democrat, would tend to disagree.
He tells me the story of when he was riding with a friend of his who owns a landscaping company, and passed a man panhandling. The friend, who was short on labor, actually pulled over and offered the guy a job making quite a bit more than minimum wage.
The guy turned him down flat.
??
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Woha, sorry. Didn't mean to offend you. So what is it, you just don't like the way he presents his facts?
And I don't get my opinions from talk radio. I get my opinions from logical, rational thought. I simply get the facts from talk radio that you can't get elsewhere. For instance, when was the last time any of you heard about "Spotted" Al Gore (as one of our local hosts affectionately calls him) claims to have invented the internet, discovered the love canal problem, been the subject of the book and movie "Love Story", and invented the earned income tax credit (which was actually passed a full year before he was even elected to the House)? Or that ABC themselves came up with the idea for this meeting between McCain and Bradley on campaign finanace reform? OR that Algore had a private working dinner with the entire Washington Press Corps (minus their two or three conservatives, of course) off the record?
Tahna:
Problem here is that he wasn't convicted of anything, so no, you can't take the gun. But I shouldn't have said "taking away HIS gun". I meant guns in general.
I think the problem is that you only see two alternatives (something I've been accused of myself). You either think that everyone can have guns, or no one can have guns. But if you keep guns out of the hands of people with records of previous violent crimes (and kids, of course), and let the rest of the people carry guns, you could eliminate 80-90% of crime involving guns according to 1/2's stats, without a corresponding increase due to a reduction in the number of crimes prevented by people with guns. Sounds like the best executable solution.
The key to remember with gun control is this: you will never be able to keep guns completely out of the hands of criminals. It's just not possible. In theory, yes, but in theory Communism works, and we all know how that turns out in the real world. So in the absence of that solution, the next best alternative is to keep as many guns out of the hands of criminals (again, and kids) and as many guns IN the hands of law-abiding citizins as possible. The laws I've suggested would do just that.
Yes, you'd still have criminals with guns, but they'd be much harder for them to get. And yes, you'd still have people snapping and going on a spree occasionally, but that can't be avoided by laws. This incident in the Netherlands prooves that. To use a phrase coined by Barry Goldwater and of late twisted out of its original meaning by liberals, "You can't legislate morality." What that originally meant was that no matter how many laws you pass, you can't change people's hearts and minds.
Boy, what Canada calls conservatives must be really screwed up.
1/2:
You're right. Some of these people simply refuse to work. I've heard of proposals for homeless shelters where you can only get shelter if you work (maybe it was fixing up the shelter or something, maybe it was simple jot that didn't pay enough to live off of; not sure, but whatever it was, they were being productive), and the tennants complained.
*lazySpeak*
How dare you try and make us work for a living!
*/speak*
------------------ Mephistopheles's Repossessions and Furnace Works C/O Mephistopheles, Cain, Brutus, Medici, Torquemada, Richelieu, Metternich, Tweed, Rasputin & Daley, Attorneys-at-Law 1 Perdition-on-the-Styx Plaza Dis, The Nether Regions
"A Hell of a Law Firm"
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited December 16, 1999).]
posted
Omega, each and every item you mentioned appeared, in some cases several times, in many of the news sources I traditionally rely on. Talk radio does not deal in facts. It deals in opinions. Opinions, I should add, which have been analyzed and prepared beforehand to appeal to the target demographic. That makes them, in my own opinion, rather worthless, and I have yet to find anyone in the medium that doesn't make me want to remove my hair with a torch.
Except for Art Bell, of course.
------------------ "I wish that everything went just as I wish everything would go." -- John Linnell
posted
One of the major networks, here in the USA, did a story on homeless people in a certin city, can't recall which city. They were offering a days work, with possibly more if the person showed up at the appointed time. They gave them bus fare or cab fare. Out of all of the people the offer was made to, only one guy showed up. Some of the others were filmed buying booze as soon as they left the crew who had hired them.
------------------ Fool of a Took, throw yourself in next time!! Gandalf
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
Omega: People have been trying to eliminate crime since the beginning of time. It hasn't done them any good at all because guess what - it's still here and going strong.
I'm all for reducing gun use to only over 21s, but how are they going to enforce it? You need a government that's got the balls to stand up to the gun lobby and tell them what to go and do with themselves - but I think that's not going to happen, especially with the (I suspect) large donations that they make to party funds. It is a good idea, and it'll take time but it also has to be combined with education for young children about what harm guns can do. Once the image of guns has changed from a symbol of power to a symbol of death, it will be easier to change attitudes.
------------------ The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. Picard, First Contact
The line has to be drawn here, this far and no further. Quark, Dogs of War
posted
To get back to the topic of guns.. especially since nobody's posted in a while..
I came by this piece of information from a fairly reliable source... perhaps some of our Australian friends can confirm or deny it for me.
*Blinks*
Erm, I forget if we actually have any Ozzie's here, but.. whatever.
My soure stated that Australia recently had a major nationwide gun confiscation effort, which netted 640,000 weapons, which they melted down.
My source then went on to say that immediately afterwards, the number of homicides, assaults, and armed robberies in that country went UP, rather than down.
Further, that homicides with firearms went up 300 percent in Victoria, and nationwide armed robberies climbed 44 percent.
If true, I would like to use this as an example of the main folly of gun-control positions, the belief that when decent, law-abiding people (as most Australians certainly are) are deprived of their ability to self-defend, and criminals, being bad guys, hold onto theirs, only good things can come of it.
------------------ Calvin: "No efficiency, no accountability... I tell you, Hobbes, it's a lousy way to run a Universe." -- Bill Watterson
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
Who was the source? A pro-gun activist I presume.
I don't know about Australia, but I can talk about the UK. There are gun crimes here, but the number of poeple actually killed with them is tiny. If someone here gets shot, it makes the news. In the US, I'd be surprised if it made the obituary column. From a young age, we learn that guns are dangerous weapons of destruction and murder. Yes there are crimes that occur because of guns, but if we didn't have this anti-gun feeling and if guns were widely available, the number of gun related crimes would soar.
We will never be able to get the gun crimes down to zero, but the point is that we have to keep the figures down. That is precisely what gun control does and it also provides a safer place to live, much safer than if guns were freely available.
------------------ The line must be drawn here, this far, no further. Picard, First Contact
The line has to be drawn here, this far and no further. Quark, Dogs of War
posted
Aussies, not Ozzies. And Daryus could always step in here to comment.
And OS is right. Un;ess you want to put down the far fewer number of deaths in Britian to something other than handgun ownership. Like maybe the fact that we're too busy playing cricket, and wouldd consider it terribly unfair to shoot someone. It's not in the Queensbury rules y'know.
------------------ "Obesity. Adiposity. Corpulence. Whatever word you use, it represents one thing: being a big fatass."
Geraldo Rivera
[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited December 21, 1999).]
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