------------------ Compadres, it is imperative that we crush the freedom fighters before the start of the rainy season. And remember, a shiny new donkey for whoever brings me the head of Colonel Montoya. ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Can I ask... how come there is still ill relations between The US and Cuba? I am right in saying that there is NO dialogue/diplomatic relations between the two countries? Even if they are bitter enemies? - should they at least have such a communication??
I'm not trying to say one way or the other... I just would like to know. What if such a thing happened between the US and Canada? or the US and Mexico? Or any other two countries? what is the protocol?? in such a situation? Anyone know?
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
posted
Now now, no one should follow my example. (Though my statement was not meant as an ad hominem, but a delightful way of bringing up a point.)
At any rate, this case should have been open and shut. In this sort of situtation, by law, regardless of the nation of origin, custody reverts to the parents. Open and shut, I say. Furthermore, Omega, I have not seen a single source giving credence to what you claim that doesn't originate from the relatives in Miami. Surely, they wouldn't be guilty of making outrageously biased claims to further their own agenda? I mean, that never happens in messy custody battles, does it?
"She's a drunk and brings home a different man every night!"
"He's a wifebeater and has horrible taste in architecture. Why, he thought Fallingwater was where the local teens would go to skinny dip!"
Had Elian been the son of an American being kept in Cuba by long-seperated relatives, can you imagine the hell that would have been raised?
The sad fact is, this case is a tragedy all around. A young boy has, in the course of a few short months lost his mother and learned that family cannot be depended upon. Moreover, when he returns his life will be anything from normal. He's not a boy in Cuba anymore, he is an Image. An Icon. And he won't be able to escape that. That is the real tragedy here.
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
To try and make a long story short, Cuban/American relations are anything but normal. In this specific situation, as I mentioned, international law is relatively clear, or so says my lawyer cousin.
There is an unofficial U.S. embassy in Havana, known as the...commerce office of something something, I believe. I don't know whether traditional embassy rules apply to it. It doesn't have an official ambassador. Cuba's relations with the U.S. are conducted via their representative to the U.N., I believe. (Side note: After checking a source or two, I found that the U.S. is represented in Cuba and vice versa through the Swiss Embassy in both nations. But I believe my other claims are true as well.)
As to the history of the thing, I think one of our posters who lived through the Cuban Missle Crisis could expound upon this far better than I, but as I see it it all comes down to inertia.
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
posted
The crux of the problem started well before the missle crisis. US companies used to have the majority of economic control in Cuba and the bulk of the nations wealth and resources. The Cubans had little say in what actually went on. When Castro came to power he took the wealth out of American hands, which as you can imagine, they did not like. The rest is history.
(Eg, I can't be bothered typing out the whole thing now *L*).
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
The only thing these things are good for, other than year long stand in the newspapers (which makes for a year long debate around the water cooler), are sketches for SNL.
Every little thing that happens (I.E.: It's been five months, six days since the Columbine shooting, let's see how the kids are doing. Quote from kid, "dude that was five months ago, leave me F****** alone." Next day, same news crew is there to cover the latest. Same kid,"Didn't I tell you yesterday to F****** leave me alone. Now get away, before i go crazy" Next day's headline, "Columbine tragedy may happen again.") Do we really need a play by play coverage of what Elian had for breakfast?
They should put it all into its own section, so people who don't give a damn can throw it away without having to miss the news that really affects them, instead of weeding through four sections (including the sports section and how this Elian Sh** affects our cuban baseball players, who are quoted as,"Goddammit, I'm a baseball player, it's opening day, and we have a new stadium. Shouldn't that be on the front page, instead of some damn kid and his dad?" Next day's headline, "Martinez: Shouldn't that be on the front page... kid and his dad?") Take yesterday's paper, front page: The RAID!, section B(local): How local people are affected by this decision, section C(sports): Cuban baseball players say prayer for Elian, Section D(business): How Clinton's support for Castro can boost the economy.
Sorry, I just am really pissed off. The news media is beginning to become less credible than "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart", and I want to hear nothing of this crap, nothing about Columbine the year after, the latest spin-off of Who wants to be a Millionare, Is OJ guilty (Goddammit, it's been five F****** years, get over it), and the F****** Spartans (Ya, they won a month ago, let's focus on baseball season now, or at least the playoffs in the NBA and NHL)
News media should have limits on one day storys, or at the very least once a week. any more than that, and people really start to get sick. 24 hour coverage (Yes, I'm including CNN) is too much, and can incite riots (Which is why they needed to raid the house like it was a Crackhouse).
Now that I've got that off my chest, I feel a lot better.
-The Great Saiyanman
------------------ Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide
posted
Sol, exactly what in the name of The Great Booga Toad are you talking about? My claims that children are wards of the state in Cuba have been confirmed by Castro himself, along with everyone who's ever lived there. Castro has also stated that Elian will be sent to a deprogramming (read: brainwashing) center for some months if he returns. Gotta get his mind right, after all. Can't have him going around spewing enemy propaganda by telling everyone how crappy life is there as opposed to here, now can we?
He'd be better off as a star than a normal kid in Cuba. As a star, he might have a chance of actually getting enough to eat, and not being sent to the fields to work his butt off earning his free education. Not to mention the possibility of being sold as a mercenary to S. America or what have you. 'Course, he'd be infinitely better off being poor here...
And I feel compelled to point out that you have no evidence that Juan Migel really IS the father of Elian. A DNA test would appear to be in order.
Another thing: you guys are fooling yourselves into thinking there's some moral equivalency between the US and Cuba. THERE IS NOT. It is the difference between freedom and slavery. Pure and simple.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
*The following is a migraine-induced rant. I may have to take it all back tomorrow.*
To bring up another point, it's perfectly obvious to me, even with my poor eyesight, that that picture of the gun clearly shows that it was not pointed anywhere near Elian's head. You can see the hole in the barrel. You couldn't, if it was pointed in the direction they claimed.
And you know, there are a LOT of Cuban expatriates, and yet I don't see them doing anything USEFUL about the hated Castro regime... I mean, shouldn't there be some movement among these people to actually DO something to help their poor oppressed relatives in Cuba, if conditions are all that bad? And shouldn't this all-fired-up anti-castro US government help? I mean, here's a crate of AK-47's, now get back in the boats, go on a little ride, and fight for your own country, why dontcha? Then little Elian can go home AND grow up free!
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Omega, I might be more inclined to listen to you if I thought you knew anything at all about Cuba.
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
posted
If I'm not mistaken, first, we've already tried something like that. It was called the Bay of Pigs.
I know as much as you do, Sol, unless you've taken a slightly illegal trip at some point. Everything I've said comes from Castro himself or people who used to live in Cuba and are unrelated to this case. Your reasons for ignoring my claims are flawed.
And I'm still waiting for an answer on exactly how Reno has the authority to remove children from their homes without authorization. I'm under the impression that she's basically the country's lawyer, nothing more.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Actually, Omega, in every single conversation I've had with you you've demonstrated a woefully inadequate grasp of even the most basic of facts, and this one is no different. I must admit I see no reason to continue bashing my head against your particular brick wall.
However, when it comes to ignorance, I have a bit of a masochistic streak.
So, let's deal with a few things, shall we? First of all, according to the Constitution, the job of the executive branch of the government is to enforce such laws as are made by Congress. The President organizes such agencies as are seen necessary to accomplish this constitutionally mandated task. One of these agencies, in fact the one whose primary task is to see to the enforcement of the criminal justice system, is the Department of Justice. At its head is a person known as the Attorney General. Ever hear of the FBI? It is a Federal law enforcement agency. Guess who its ultimate boss below the President is? The Attorney General.
Now, this next part might gall you, but, so what? In this sort of situation, custody reverts to the surviving parent. It has in uncounted numbers of similar cases since who knows when. Unfortunately, few of those children came from nations with ultra-powerful lobbys living inside the United States. We've sent Haitian children back without so much as a how do you do because A.) That's the agreed upon international law, and B.) There is no well-off Haitian emigrant community in the U.S.
Omega, you have in the past shown yourself to be in favor of a rather extreme form of isolationism for the United States. That's fine, so far as it goes. But then you turn around and essentially advocate that the U.S. go through the world and steal children from every nation that we don't like. The question is simple: Does the United States have the right to remove children from their parents because we disagree with their politics? The answer is no. And yet the implication you give is that the United States is only limited in what it can do to those of us thinking "right thoughts", and should have free reign over the rest of the world.
------------------ "Oh, it's an anti-anti-WTO song. It's essentially a pro-Starbucks song. I saw this picture of a guy sticking his foot through a plate-glass window in a Starbucks in Seattle, and he was wearing a Nike. Man, couldn't you just change your shoes?" -- M. Doughty
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