posted
You are very very lucky that I do not abuse the ability to edit other peoples' posts, you know. :P And there's no such thing as an LSD treatment centre, so nyah!
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I really want a flying pogo-stick." - Antag
quote:SCSImperium: I still have a bone to pick with you.
quote:Oh and BTW, I've sent your comments to several friends of mine. I have yet to receive comments from them. When I do, I'll be sure to post them here.
Oh, pah! I've dealt with hundreds of death threats from an actual newspaper I write/edit for. And the topics I write about aren't near as controversial as what I draw up here. I might never win your opinion on this matter, but I'll win this argument ...
Since this must be the 5th or 6th post, I think my approach needs to change ..
quote:You say that speech and suffrage are two different things, that women can have the right to free speech, but not the right to vote. Voting is a way to express free speech
Political speech might be harmed if the women's vote were repealed. And that doesn't necessarily mean because of a loss of suffrage, women don't still influence the vote on certain issue regardless of the political era, movements, or views. Woman influenced the vote in ancient Rome, as they have in cultures since. They could own land, and payed taxes, yet couldn't vote; they brought forth the argument of "taxation without representation" to Augustus. Augustus replied "It's rediculous you should be able to vote twice," and sent them home. He was referring that the wife's interests were reflected in the husband. The first woman's liberation movement was a failure. Why? It was before its time.
The Romans didn't make the industrial age. For many reasons, irrelvant to discuss here, they didn't reach it, so the barrier wasn't to be passed for about thousand seven hundred so years. And this brings me to your next comment
quote:we'd all plunge backwards into middle-age politics where women are simply second-class citizens.
The industrial revolution is what changed woman's position in society. That happened in 1880's, 90ish. And from this radical change, women started working, starting becoming apart from men, and the "husband's vote". This time when the suffrage movement began, it was a success. Why? Because women being a seperate unit in the workforce needed the vote. I doubt at any point in history women have been declared second class citizens. That word in itself is an invention of the post industrial revolution. It classes itself with a time and age that is ending. So please, Mr. Tahna, draw me a reference in your argument that doesn't anchor itself to today's views. I respect the past more than the present.
This leads me today. The Industrial Age is ending. Manned labor and factories are closing down and becoming less integral of the base economy. And thus the required physical labor force is shrinking, and we can see ourselves in a similar situation to that before the industrial revolution; woman are taking their place back at the home. They can now do jobs from home, computer terminals, et cetera.
Of course, I'm heading a little into the future with what I'm saying, because right now woman are seen throughout physical workplaces. This maybe a little insight into the near future.
I used Clinton as one example. A simplification. This is probably more my opinion than a clear example of destruction in American society, but, for that matter, it would be hard to find a president that could harm such a well constructed democracy.
Of course the idea of limiting rights in a democracy seems backward. Though, consider, rights not only expand, but contract with time and technological ages. Using what I have said above, the woman's vote is becoming more superfluous as we move away from the industrial era when they mattered.
To conclude, I'm sure most everyone you e-mail my selected comments to will agree that I'm wrong. Sexist, discrimatory, what have you. But I ask you again, look at the past. Look at the relationships between the entering and exiting of ages and the political views and movements that follow and end with them.
I have more to post later ...
------------------ -Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
posted
Well, obviously, and I don't mean to say that I haven't agreed with some of what Mr. SCSI has said elsewhere; but obviously denying the vote to women is ludicrous on the face of it.
quote:but obviously denying the vote to women is ludicrous on the face of it.
It is today. But can you imagine, forgetting any political voices or constraints of today, a situation arising itself in the future where the woman vote could be belittled, possibly terminated, in the face of a technologicaland social change? Answer that question yes or no.
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
posted
Ok, then I'll ask the obvious question here.
On the political spectrum, what differentiates male and female? How are they different enough in the present climate to deny the vote to one and not the other?
------------------ Oh, fiddle faddle, everyone knows that our mutants have flippers. Oops, I've said too much..... ~C. Montgomery Burns
posted
Short of all women everywhere being stripped of their cognative abilities? No.
Anyone that the law affects and that is capable of making a rational decision should be allowed a say in how that law is made. Of course, this brings up the question of at what age a person becomes a rational, responsible being. There's gotta be a way to test for that, instead of just setting an arbitrary age...
Edit: Darnit, Jay, you posted while I was typing. Stop that. :P
------------------ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited August 16, 2000).]
posted
Well, if women are "voting twice" by influencing the votes of their husbands, are not men "voting twice" by influencing the votes of their wives?
Or are women so fundamentally different that they cannot be influenced by men?
------------------ "...I was just up in Canada, Toronto actually. You know, they really hate you guys [Americans] up there? The funny thing is, they think you hate them back, when in fact, you just couldn't be bothered to care. Now in Ireland, it's a different story. At least we had the common decency to wait until the English invaded before we started hating them. I guess the Canadians are hating you in advance..." -Irish Comic Ed Byrne on Canada-US relations
posted
As a Librarian, I have access to more information than 99% of the population.
As a cognitively reasoning being, trained and fully versed in logic, deductive reasoning, and inductive reasoning, I have the best ability to apply that data meaningfully.
Ergo, my vote should count the most, and the rest of you are superfluous.
I will now assume my rightful throne as Emperor.
SCSI, I sentence you to... A Boot to the Head. *whiss* *THUNK!*
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
You need to read the whole post. You can't just pull out the conclusion by itself; by itself it makes no sense.
quote:"HEY!! You getcher ass back inthe KITCHEN! And make me some PIAH!!"
If someone thinks I think like this, then you just don't understand. I gave a deductive run down of why I say this, historically. Until someone replies to my post as whole, the matter is closed.
------------------ -Small Computer Systems Interface "Scuzzy" Emperor
Operator of the Goulag Hotel, maintainer of the workhouses.
"Woman is deprived of rights from lack of education, and the lack of education results from the absence of rights. We must not forget that the subjection of women is so complete, and dates from such distant ages, that we are often unwilling to recognize the gulf that separates them from us."
Tolstoy, on a more objective note.
[This message has been edited by SCSImperium (edited August 16, 2000).]
posted
I woujld point out, Scuzz-man, that you have yet to give us a legitimate reason why we SHOULD revoke a woman's right to vote (not that such a reason exists). Until you do so, we're all wasting our time.
------------------ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
posted
Scuzzy: You may have given a "deductive run-down", but it doesn't make any sense.
------------------ "They might be the infamous buzzard collectors for what we know, grabbing hapless space avians so that they don't end up as smears in the windshield." -Timo Saloniemi, 16-Aug-2000
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