You're quite naive. I've read stories of pizza delivery guys (and, hey, isn't that your occupation?) going out to deliver a pizza. The one I'm specifically thinking of was robbed, then told to lie face-down in the ditch and count to 100. He got to about seven before they blew the back of his head off. He barely survived.
If I'm naive, I guess that makes you a monkey's ass, huh? How would have a gun improved the delivery driver's chances for life? A pizza is big, Omega. It's not as easy to toss it aside and draw a weapon as it might seem, especially is said weapon is tucked into a jacket or the like (as it would have to be, as no reputable delivery business would allow their drivers to carry a weapon, so the driver would have to have it hidden pretty well to carry it at all).
I own a Glock 17. Don't ask me why I bought it, I did so when I turned 21. Guess I felt it was a "rite of passage" or some stupid shit like that. Even if I was to carry it on a delivery, there would be no point. It would be tucked into my waistband with a shirt and a sweatshirt (and possible, a jacket) covering it, I wouldn't be able to get to it. It's spent the last year and couple of months abandoned in my dresser drawer, because I've no need for the dammed thing.
Needless to say, this was back when I thought everyone carrying a weapon and the death penalty were good ideas. I no longer think that way, and I don't think I've even so much looked at the gun in well over a year
The person at fault for this was the driver for not utilizing very basic safety precautions -- a call back at the house, etcetra. I've made deliveries, pulled up in front of wherever it was I was supposed to go, and drove away because something didn't look or feel right about it.
And, gee, for every story you can tell me about a pizza guy getting shot, I can tell you about a hundred of the robber coming up, getting cash and the pizza, and running off (or I could tell you about Mo Ahmed -- guy tried to rob him with a knife, and Mo broke the guy's arm and nose). And despite what some people make it out to be, pizza robberies are very rare. There hasn't been one in the area I work in for about three years now. Now, the Highs and 7-11s on the other hand ...
And just how do you suggest we create this Utopia? It's like communism. It's a dream that can never happen
So you do believe Communism to be Utopia and therefore the perfect society? If so, why are you a Republican?
The DNP inniated attempt in the Senate to dictate what isles food products would be placed in supermarkets
Now, see, you know you're paranoid when you're worried about what aisle the milk and candy is in ...
How the hell is asking that bread be in aisle five across the country unconstitutional?
and owners of private resteraunts can segregate thier customers however they darned please
They most certainly can not. Discrimination by race, gender, or age is very much unconstitutional and illegal.
Oh, you're one of the ones that never got it. Listen to me very carefully: IT WASN'T ABOUT SEX. It was about perjury, which, last I checked, was a crime.
Yes, and there was a trial, Omega. It was called an "impeachment" ... yes? And ... gasp! Wasn't he found not guilty? Yet, you still say he was guilty! But wait, he was found not guilty ... he certainly wasn't proved not-innocent, unless you've forgotten the whole "innocent until proved guilty" ... or maybe you're really a judge?
Kelvar rounds
Police officers seem rather upset about "cop-killing" rounds. Why do you support the existance of weapons which could kill a police officer?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 12, 2000).]
"So you do believe Communism to be Utopia and therefore the perfect society? If so, why are you a Republican?"
You might be interested to know that "Utopia" means "nowhere." Meaning, yeah, it's the perfect theoretical society, but it CAN'T EXIST. I'm a realist.
re: Pizza and guns
"Even if I was to carry it on a delivery, there would be no point. It would be tucked into my waistband with a shirt and a sweatshirt (and possible, a jacket) covering it, I wouldn't be able to get to it."
Well, DUH! If you were dumb enough to keep a gun in a place like that, of course it's not going to do any good. That's why we have holsters.
Now who was it around here that was a pizza delivery dude, besides you? Whomever it was, he told about how casually displaying his gun to a group of thugs caused them to back off. He also talked about how when the chain he worked for had the policy you claim everyone has (BTW, they don't), robberies were relatively rampant. However, when the company announced that they were changing their policy, and that drivers would be allowed to carry guns, robberies nearly stopped. Now who was that? First?
"Now, see, you know you're paranoid when you're worried about what aisle the milk and candy is in ..."
So you think it's OK for the government to start making irrelevant laws that they have no business making? What if they made a law saying that you couldn't put a TV and a computer in the same room? Or governing the organization of your pantry? It's the same principle, isn't it? I mean, it doesn't REALLY matter, does it?
Oh, and BTW, your sentence made no grammatical sense. I simply replied to what you, as any other liberal, would say.
"How the hell is asking that bread be in aisle five across the country unconstitutional?"
Again, look up the tenth ammendment.
"Discrimination by race, gender, or age is very much unconstitutional and illegal."
Show me the clause in the constitution that says that business owners can't discriminate. 'Cause unless specifically stated otherwise, the ninth ammendment says they can. Have you ever even read the document of which you speak?
"Why do you support the existance of weapons which could kill a police officer?"
Who said I did? BTW, last I checked, most bullets can kill police officers. It's not like kryptonite is required.
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
Domino's Pizza, Papa John's Pizza, and Pizza Hutt, do not allow drivers to carry weapons of any kind. Knives, guns, etcetra. I don't know what chain this person worked for, but it sounds like a mom-n'-pop operation or possible a franchise.
I couldn't wear a holster, you dolt. First, its illegal to carry the gun in the first place, and second, if anyone I worked with same me with it I'd be fired. Not to mention it would be hard to conceal effectively.
I don't know where this person worked, but if you work in a dangerous area delivering pizzas, you take those chances. Carrying a gun isn't going to do anything but get yourself killed when you try and draw it on the robber (who more than likely just wants your money and maybe the pizza).
Most reputable chains only allow their drivers to carry no more than a $20 bank on them at any time (and they advertise this fact -- Domino's goes so far as to do so on its uniforms). I've seen drivers from Bruce Lee's Chinese bring out WADS of twenties and tens to give me change ... they make themselves a target, not the Papa Johns guy who has trouble breaking a $20 on a $10.49 order and walks away with the pizza when some asshole tries to give me a $50 expecting that we've got $35 in change for him.
Robbing a pizza guy (or gal) isn't a spur of the moment thing. It can be frustrating to be waiting outside an apartment complex for a pizza guy (or gal) in the hope that they'll show up -- they're usually setups, where someone who has ordered before (or worked for the company), calls in an order and waits in ambush. This is why simple precautions like asking customers to light up their doorway, and using call-backs (gotta love cell phones) keep the dangers down. So does carrying money. Any robber in this area will go after the mom n' pop drivers, because they carry a shit load more money than the "big" chain drivers, but they don't make a secret of it.
I was an Assistant Manager for Domino's Pizza for a year and a half, in Columbia, Md and then Cockeysville. I worked thirty to forty hours a week, and do you know how many robberies happened when I was working? None. And I mean, nowhere. Not from Papa Johns, or Pizza Hutt, and not just in our delivery areas, but in the surrounding ones. Pizza Boli, Waterloo Pizza, they had some problems, and the cops looked into it. They put some people in undercover with all the big chains after two Waterloo guys got robbed two nights in a row (they didn't catch the guy), but the criminals usually don't go after the big chains because the big chains are smarter about the whole thing.
Trust me, if I worked with people who flashed $50 and $20 bills routinely while delivering pizzas, I'd be carrying the Glock (or at least considering it). Hell, there's more chance of someone walking into the store to rob it then getting me when I'm standing on Scott Adam Road knocking on a townhouse door.
This is something we discuss routinely at Papa Johns. I work with people who have been robbed. Most just handed over their money and pizza and the robbers raced off (I feel sorry for the guy who stole the triple-anchovie pizza, but oh well). But everyone at the store I work at is unanimous that there's no need.
It's all about prevention. And it works.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 12, 2000).]
I don't know where this person worked, but if you work in a dangerous area delivering pizzas, you take those chances. Carrying a gun isn't going to do anything but get yourself killed when you try and draw it on the robber (who more than likely just wants your money and maybe the pizza).
Take chances? There is no reason for the delivery person to take any less chances of the people he/she is delivering pizzas to. I'll also argue that carrying a gun will certainly keep your chances from getting murdered better.
The criminal may just want the money, and even the pizza.... They still have the weapon and the capacity to harm you in most cases - Even if just to scare you or kill you destroying any identification they can be made on.
quote:but the criminals usually don't go after the big chains because the big chains are smarter about the whole thing.
Tell that to the employees of the Canton, NC Pizza Hut who were robbed last month. Usually they don't correct, but they still know how to make a robbery... The criminal has not been found or identified yet because he was wearing a mask.
Being less than a mile away, don't think for a second I wasn't carrying my gun the rest of the night.
quote:It's all about prevention. And it works.
Preventing what? Your not preventing robberies. Your not preventing the fact you can be killed for that money.
Responsible use and education of a firearm is not to be shamed. A gun may make it easy to kill someone, but it's a hell of a lot easier to purchase a knife and mutilate and in effect kill someone.
According to www.dictionary.com, "nothing" is nowhere listed as a definition. Kindly explain your source for that definition?
"An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects."
Of course, why would anyone want to live in Utopia when you can shoot people with CAR-15s?
Take chances? There is no reason for the delivery person to take any less chances of the people he/she is delivering pizzas to. I'll also argue that carrying a gun will certainly keep your chances from gewtting murdered better.
You mean the house you deliver to, the people will rob you? Yeah, that'd be real smart. Even if they were to kill you and bury you in the basement, the store would know the last address the driver was at, and would know something was wrong within twenty or thirty minutes after such a thing occured ("Hey, where's Tom? He was just going to Venture Court, wasn't he? Let me call his cell ..."). You'd have to be insane to rob a delivery driver at your own home.
The criminal may just want the money, and even the pizza ... They still have the weapon and the capacity to harm you in most cases - Even if just to scare you or kill you destroying any identification they can be made on.
Robberies of delivery drivers are non-existant during day hours. Most robbers (when they strike), prefer to do such things at night. Most deliveries are in residential areas, so doing it during the day would draw to much attention and possibly too many witnesses. Therefore, they rob at dark. And how many people fit the description of "maybe a 6 foot tall black male?" or "he was latino, I think, I couldn't see how high he was." It's not like we've got night-vision, people. Identification is going to be hard to make 'cuz we're never going to see them.
Tell that to the employees of the Canton, NC Pizza Hutt who were robbed last month. Usually they don't correct, but they still know how to make a robbery ... the criminal has not been found or identified yet because he was wearing a mask.
Now, did he walk into the store and rob it? Or did he rob several different drivers? If he walked into the store, well, it happens, to everyone. It seems everybody cooperated, and no one got hurt. Also, he wore a mask, wasn't identified, and didn't kill anyone, now did he?
Being less than a mile away, don't think for a second I wasn't carrying my gun the rest of the night?
Why would you? If he robbed a driver, it was more than likely a setup. He picked to rob a driver because he knew the guy would carry money. If he robbed the store, then the same thing. I doubt it was a spur of the moment robbery, and therefore, he wouldn't be out for some random guy walking around.
Preventing what? Your not preventing robberies. Your not preventing the fact you can be killed for that money
Shit, man, I could be killed for my money as I walk out my apartment door. It doesn't mean I feel the need to carry a gun. And yes, we are preventing robberies by taking precautions. We don't carry large amounts of money, doing that makes us non-desireable targets for a robber. We often call people's homes before we deliver to ensure that they are in fact home, and often, ask them to come to the door and watch us walk to the house and then back to the car. Etcetra, etcetra. I completely disagree with you on this point, but I suppose you feel the only precautions that should be taken are a 9mm round? Sorry, bud, I'm not going to kill someone over a few bucks and a pizza.
Responsible use and education of a firearm is not to be shamed. A gun may make it easy to kill someone, but it's a hell of a lot easier to purchase a knife and mutilate and in effect kill someone
I didn't say it was to be shamed. If anything, when people feel so scared where they live that they can't walk outside without a firearm, perhaps they should consider that fear, and move to a safer area? Just a thought.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 13, 2000).]
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, pp. 1300
Let's see. Utopia apparently comes from the Greek words "ou," meaning "not," and "topos," meaning "place." 1: An imaginary and indefinitely remote place. You've already got the second definition. 3: an impractical scheme for social improvement.
Next time, do your own homework, eh?
Now what is it with liberals and letting criminals win? "If someone breaks into your house, you should make your family jump out the window until he leaves." "Just let him HAVE the money. Don't take any precautions that he won't kill you when he's done."
Stupidity.
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
posted
The pizza delivery person in question was my younger brother. To clarify:
I told the story of his successfully using the simple display (not even unholstering) of his weapon to discourage two potential criminals, during a delivery run to a particularly crime-ridden area. I used this as a single, personally-known example of the more than 2 million times that the display or use of firearms is successful in prefenting and/or stopping crimes each year, as reported by the FBI.
His pizza store did not ban the carrying of firearms by delivery people.
As to the idea that a criminal is somehow MORE likely to attack and kill a visibly armed person than an unarmed one... I'd have to swallow a lot of orange pills before I'd beleive THAT concept was remotely logical. TV may teach you that, but TV is full of crap, too.
>""If someone breaks into your house, you should make your family jump out the window until he leaves." "Just let him HAVE the money. Don't take any precautions that he won't kill you when he's done.""
I'm sorry, but that IS stupidity.
Therefore, while you may not yourself BE stupid, and nobody called you so, if you hold this belief, then you do indeed believe a stupid thing.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited December 13, 2000).]
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
He may have not called me stupid, but saying that all Liberals hold those kind of beliefs is VERY stereotypical. While I also judge by actions, I try to keep my comments to a person or the small group of people rather than make a general statement about a large group of people.
Please Omega. Cut the Crap.
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
quote: JeffKardde said... You mean the house you deliver to, the people will rob you? Yeah, that'd be real smart. You'd have to be insane to rob a delivery driver at your own home.
If you were confused by my post then I'll clarify... Taking chances for the delivery person going anywhere that the actual people receiving the pizza, may have firearms to protect their homes.
quote:Robberies of delivery drivers are non-existent during day hours. Most robbers (when they strike), prefer to do such things at night. Most deliveries are in residential areas, so doing it during the day would draw to much attention and possibly too many witnesses. Therefore, they rob at dark. And how many people fit the description of "maybe a 6 foot tall black male?" or "he was latino, I think, I couldn't see how high he was." It's not like we've got night-vision, people. Identification is going to be hard to make 'cuz we're never going to see them.
I don't see the point your making since I was talking about evening hour robberies anyway. I also fail to see why your using minorities to back up your point. Either way there is no difference, if you have a face to describe, you have at least something to go on. Fact is though most criminals won'r be found in a night situation.
quote:Now, did he walk into the store and rob it? Or did he rob several different drivers? If he walked into the store, well, it happens, to everyone. It seems everybody cooperated, and no one got hurt. Also, he wore a mask, wasn't identified, and didn't kill anyone, now did he?
A little of both actually. The criminal caught the delivery fellow going back into the closed restaurant after the final delivery - That's how he gained access.
No one got hurt, but they easily could have been with a criminal pointing a .357 at them the whole time. Many criminals would have shot them for being scared if they didn't actually have a mask to be cruel. Other criminals would have shot them to fell the power of a gun, or somesuch.
quote:Why would you? If he robbed a driver, it was more than likely a setup. He picked to rob a driver because he knew the guy would carry money. If he robbed the store, then the same thing. I doubt it was a spur of the moment robbery, and therefore, he wouldn't be out for some random guy walking around.
I would because we close out business day at 10PM. That means we have a load of money in the safe. If a criminal wants that money, fine... He's not going to hurt me or any of my people to get it though.
quote:Shit, man, I could be killed for my money as I walk out my apartment door. It doesn't mean I feel the need to carry a gun. And yes, we are preventing robberies by taking precautions. We don't carry large amounts of money, doing that makes us non-desireable targets for a robber. We often call people's homes before we deliver to ensure that they are in fact home, and often, ask them to come to the door and watch us walk to the house and then back to the car. Etcetra, etcetra. I completely disagree with you on this point, but I suppose you feel the only precautions that should be taken are a 9mm round? Sorry, bud, I'm not going to kill someone over a few bucks and a pizza.
To each there own. I personally wouldn't kill anyone for a pizza an $20 either. Like I said though, I'd rather have a chance in protecting my life.
I'm not talking about automatic weapons, or militia crap. If you ever had to really deal with someone threatening you with a knife though, I'd advise you to have a firearm for backup... Just in case?
quote:I didn't say it was to be shamed.
No, but your entire argument is implying it.
quote:If anything, when people feel so scared where they live that they can't walk outside without a firearm, perhaps they should consider that fear, and move to a safer area? Just a thought.
I actually live in a small town, and with little violence at all. I don't carry firearms because I'm scared, I carry them for personal protection - That being of myself, family and children.
This area is fairly safe because most of the citizens do own firearms. I would prefer my area where most people carrying guns are licensed to own them instead of the many places criminals can get them on the street.
------------------ This thing that we've made is fat and feeds on the hate of the millions that it's taught to sing its song... DEAverification :P
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