posted
I think JeffK's got an inflated idea of how big some houses are. I could protect my family's bedrooms AND confront an intruder while standing in the same spot.
Burglars working in pairs or groups isn't unheard of, but neither is it a common occurance. It happens more often in rural areas like mine, where people sometimes drive a truck up to a house and load up all the stuff.
Of course, in rural areas like mine, police response time is anything from 15-45 minutes or more. The time I got rear-ended, it took precisely 47 to get one lone oficer to the scene. An armed group takes longer.
However, a scenario of a pair of criminals is more likely out here to end like so:
Criminal 1 enters house - resident awakes. Criminal 2 enters house - resident arms self. Criminal 1 loots downstairs while Criminal 2 heads upstairs. *KABOOM* Criminal 2 flies back downstairs, his chest a smoking bloody ruin. Criminal 1 drops everything and runs like hell, praying the gun wasn't double-barreled. *2nd KABOOM* (Optional)
>"I couldn't do that. I couldn't even imagine the circumstances under which I could take the life of another human being."
Yes, you can. You did it in the abortion thread. The difference is, this human being is consciously trying to harm you and yours, and is fully capabale of understanding the potential consequences of his actions, while a fetus isn't.
So I guess it really depends on how you classify 'human.' In your view, criminals and murders and rapists are human, and unborn children aren't. My view is precisely the opposite. Thus the quandary.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited December 14, 2000).]
a) Call the police. "Yes, there's a robber in my house, my wife and children are here, and I think he might be armed".
b) Get my children into my room, lock door.
c) Grab a sword ... maybe the Glock, if I've still got it.
d) Wait for police to arrive. Take action if robbers approach the room.
It's easy and foolhardy to have a circimventive plan when you can't really predict the situation. The point is to stay in control, or at least as much as you can.
Where will the criminal come from? What direction will he/she go? Does the layout of your home make a difference? Assuming you'll even have time to pull your kids to real safety is really optimistic at best.
Now on the grab a sword thing... What is that about? Do you have a sword? You best grab the Glock and keep them away from you if it's necessary to shoot them. They may only have a knife, or an axe, and I really wouldn't like to duel an axe with a sword.
Calling the police is a responsible thing to do, but I wouldn't lay all value on them saving you and your family.
quote:PsyLiam said...
I do agree with Jeff about one thing. I can't imagine ever taking someone's life, no matter the situation. Can you think what it would be like explaining to your 5 year old kid why you've just killed someone?
Yea, really I have to agree with Omega there. I'd much rather explain to my children I killed someone to save their life than be attending their funeral, or expect my family to attend mine and theirs.
------------------ This thing that we've made is fat and feeds on the hate of the millions that it's taught to sing its song... DEAverification :P
posted
JeffK is siding on the idea of caution. His moral? NEVER underestimate a criminal
Yay! A ray of sanity!
Kindly explain to me, Omega and First, what is wrong with caution?
Now, re: police response time. If I called the police, they'd be here in under a minute. I live at what is known as a "party complex" -- and I have called the police on one or two occasions when there have been fights (in one, a kid got pushed through a sliding-glass door and damn near lost his arm).
I called the police. "Hi, there's a fight at Mustone Court in the Colony?"
"We'll send someone right over," and at that moment, you could hear the sirens come to life. Four different cruisers were at the scene in under two minutes, and a couple more arrived later.
On one occasion, a half-naked drunk girl wandered into my apartment. She was looking for someone named "Tom", and that would be a damn fool reason to shoot somebody with a shotgun, now wouldn't it?
Officer: "Why exactly did you shoot a half naked drunk girl?"
Resident: "I thought she was going to kill me."
Officer: "With what? Her cigarette?"
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 14, 2000).]
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I'm going to play fence sitter again.
On one side of the fence, I believe that JeffR, Omega, and Fo2 live, or used to live in rural areas where the police are too far to provide any form of decent assistance. Whereas JeffK and myself, who probably spent most of our lives in urban areas where the police response time is fast and reliable. So, I could probably understand some of the points that JeffR, Omega, Fo2, and DEA are trying to make.
But JeffK makes a very good point though. Anyone remembers that Japanese foreign student who went to the wrong house looking for a party and got blown to kingdom come (literally)?
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
posted
It only takes a miniscule moment to identify whether an intruder is harmless or not.
The Third Rule of Gun ownership is "ALWAYS know your target," - this means never shoot something until you know for certain what it is and whether or not you really need to kill it, or whether scaring it will do, or whether you can go ahead and put your gun away because it's only your houseguest making a midnight refrigerator raid. Anyone intelligent enough to follow that rule has Zero chance of shooting a half-naked drunk girl.
(Gun grabbers like to pretend that gun owners are like you see in sitcoms on TV, suddenly blasting away in darkened rooms before they get a clear look at who they're shooting. But that's another way TV lies to you.)
You know, us human-qualified people, we LOOK before we blast. (If you don't look, you don't have a very good chance of hitting your target, anyway.)
As for that poor japanese student:
1. The gun owner was not following the commonsense rules. He SHOULD have been fined, jailed, and whatever else they did to him. It's still a crime committed with a gun. A reasonable case for self-defense would be damned hard to prove in this instance.
2. It's mean to say this, but it's hard to believe that there's anybody who DOESN'T realize that having a gun pointed in your direction is the Universal sign for "GO AWAY FAST."
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
It's safe to say the gun-owner didn't know the "rules of gunownership," or that Japanese student would probably be alive.
Would he have known it meant to get the hell out of the area? He's from a completely different culture, First, I don't think its safe to assume he "knew" to get the hell out of the area. I mean, the police over there don't even carry guns!
Given that this man didn't know the "3rd rule" (can you post the others, just curious), what would be the problem with insisting all people wishing to purchase a handgun attend a training class? At the very least, it might have saved this man's life.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited December 14, 2000).]
posted
A question for Omega. Ever been in a critical situation? You know, where you are really in danger?
Felt the blood run through you, knees turn weak, focus go off, senses reach out, doubt & fear flood you? Obiviously not. So, until you have been there, stop spouting all this crap about 'yeeha, I'd just go down there and bust all their asses!'.
When you are in a life threatening situation, no matter what training you have had, or what weapons you carry, you'll realise how immaterial all this squablling and posturing is. You have a split second to make a decision that could end a life, one way or the other. Now, any kind of martial training helps keep you focused, and some experience with weapons is invaluable, but you, I would guess lack and experience with high pressure situations and I'd bet a months wages that your stomach would turn to jelly and you'd want mamma to come cover you up the first time you're really shite scared of being killed. Theres' nothing shameful in that, but just make sure you can seperate your realistic reactions from your fantasies about being the all conquering hero who takes out the baddie.
These situations are fluid, and never what you expect. Your reactions are always half as good as they should have been, upon reflection. Keep that in mind.
posted
First of Two summed most of it up, but I'll add anyway.
quote:Tahna Los said... But JeffK makes a very good point though. Anyone remembers that Japanese foreign student who went to the wrong house looking for a party and got blown to kingdom come (literally)?
That goes back to my earlier comments that education is the key, and learning respect for the firearm. You never play with guns, you never point a gun at someone - Loaded or not unless your prepared to fire, and you most certainly don't shoot before you ask questions, unless your attacked. Now is some intoxicated student tries to climb me while I'm armed and am trying to identify whom they are and their intentions, the honestly its their own fault they are shot.
I understand that wasn't the case for the student, but I'd never fire unless I saw a potential threat. I don't really think her never seeing a gun would wash either. Japanese anima is full of all firearms, and the cultures television is too.
I am a proponent of firearm education. Without knowing the rules and standards for owning a gun, you really shouldn't have the right.
------------------ This thing that we've made is fat and feeds on the hate of the millions that it's taught to sing its song... DEAverification :P
posted
"Now is some intoxicated student tries to climb me while I'm armed and am trying to identify whom they are and their intentions, the honestly its their own fault they are shot. "
I'm genuinely shocked. Do you really believe that?
------------------ "I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
...who is correct. If you get shot because you got drunk and make yourself seem a legitimate threat to someone, it IS your fault. This is why getting drunk is a bad idea. You loose control.
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
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