posted
Yes, leaders and brownnoses worldwide must've started siding with either party the minute this thing started! A fair share of lobbyism too, no doubt.
posted
It means that Dubya has the power to end this any time he wants to, but he's refusing in order to have the opportunity to "handle" a foreign-"crisis." In other words, he wants the whole world to know he's got a big dick.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
"It is obvious countries that are our "allies" are simply those who we can control. The United Kingdom, Japan, etc."
Now, I'm in a really mellow mood, so all I'll simply say is "pardon?".
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
Well, this discussion has gone down the toilet. Thank you Jeff Kardde for expounding on your fascination with our President's genitalia.
It now comes down to one point: China wants an apology for the crash- NOT the survelliance- and since there is no evidence that the US is at fault, there is no reason for an apology. That's all there is to it.
------------------ "Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond
posted
Ace: Well that's another conclusion, my main thought was the instant "proposals" made by the people in the shadows. This situation can probably be profitable for someone, I just haven't figured out for whom, yet.
posted
I'm glad to see the responses of a few more enlightened individuals, but the same old keep at it, so if no one does anything to provoke me, I'm staying out of this because I am strongly against any americanising discussion.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
<<"It is obvious countries that are our "allies" are simply those who we can control. The United Kingdom, Japan, etc." Now, I'm in a really mellow mood, so all I'll simply say is "pardon?". >>
Sorry, that statement was constructed rather poorly, although I don't remember putting "who we can control" in italics.
By "control" I meant that the United States has a military base there.
Also, look at Bush and how he got the EU angry at him with global warming. Will any of those countries actually DO anything about it, though? Seriously? Would the EU declare a revised trade agreement with the United States because of this? How about Japan? If the Unites States got Japan angry, what could they do?
BTW, I am not saying I LIKE these facts.
The United States sadly has become a bully in the world, and I hope American arrogance won't do any harm to the world in the future.
------------------ Ace
"Objects in mirror are closer than they appear."
[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 08, 2001).]
posted
You needn't worry about the near future, the USA has sealed it's fate by reaching hegemonic status, same as any other nation that has reached it before, there is a natural cycle of things, a transition from a uni-polar world, where one country dominates, to a bi-polar world where it's a stand-off between two major powers, and then ofcourse the winner takes over and you have a uni-polar world once more. The USA has held this place for an entire lifetime(in some people's cases) but there have been empires that have held hegemonic status for much longer, but they have still crumbled into obscurity, do not expect anything different just because you're "American", history doesn't give a damn, it just happens.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
The point I am trying to make, JeffR, is that George W. has the ability to end this crisis right in front of him ... but because he wants people to think he can handle a foreign crisis, he's not willing to offer an apology.
How presidential.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
There is no sense in lying, Jeff, just to end this fiasco- because it won't end there. Apologizing, would in a sense, make the US look weak. Not to mention, it would a lie, then we'd certainly would lose trust in our allies. You don't negotiate with terrorists, Jeff, and you don't concede to lying governments.
Currently, the Chinese military is using this event to boost their budget. They're milking it for every drop they can get. You think they care about some pilot? Do you think they care about 24 people being detained? They don't, Jeff. If they can make their budget bigger, and win favor with the people, they'll do anything they can. They do not want an apology out of principle, they want one to make the US look bad.
------------------ "Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond
posted
IMHO, the US already looks bad just by sending a spy plane down their coast.
Let's just hope the crew and the families of the crew don't mind the seperation ... I mean, it's all in the name of giving the US a good, strong name, right?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Note that this crash isn't exactly a new thing. We've lost aircraft to games with Soviet & other Eastern Bloc counterparts before--anyone remember back in the early/mid-80s when that F-14 on an extreme-range BARCAP got clipped by the wing of a Tu-95 "Bear" over the North Atlantic? Couldn't make it back to its carrier (Saratoga or Independence, I think), had to land at Keflavik instead. Turned out the "Bear" pilot panicked when he saw the interceptor slowly coming closer & closer & accidentally wobbled a bit.
As for my "TV & radio" comment, I didn't mean to suggest that the DoD is interested in reruns of "Kangaroo CourtTV" or bootlegging a copy of the Peking Chorale Group's latest hit single. ("Everyone Is Rejoicing Over The Wiping Out Of The Four Pests") It was merely meant to imply a broadband EM-spectrum emission analysis.
Back on main track. The Chinese are not the Soviets/Russians. The SovRus will admit that they fucked up..eventually. The ChiComs claim complete infallability. Have we actually SEEN this F-8 pilot yet? I'm willing to bet he's become a nonperson ("'Teng?' 'Teng' who?") & been shipped off to a May 4th farm for a nice relaxing visit pending a return to "honored reliability."
Incidentally, the Chinese are already at war with the US, their own kind of war using the most readily-available resource they have: people. It's an economic & populational war they're waging. This shit? It's sleight-of-hand meant to keep the West off balance so we continue to think conventionally about their warfare. Nothing more.
------------------ "For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
------------------ "For people with resources, the right events happen. They may look like coincidences, but they arise out of necessity." --T�rk Hviid
posted
Man, you stay off line for a couple of days and look what happens.
The hawks want to go a mano y mano with China and finish what MacArthur 'should have started' back in the 50's. Damn Truman!
Diplomacy be damned. Well, diplomacy needs time to work, and even more time to work when dealing with the Chinese.
Please consider this, there is a deal beng conisdered to send a crapload of high-tech military equipment to Taiwan. THE issue in China is Taiwan and the last thing that mainland China wants to see is Taiwan getting top-flight military stuff.
So, if you put yourself in China's shoes...something that no one seems willing to do...they obviously see this incident as an opportunity. They have something to bargin with to prevent the military transaction. Has anyone at all considered that?
Does that make their position right? Not in the least bit. The American plane was within our definition of international air...collecting information...although I wonder how we'uns would feel with Chinese information gathering planes flying down the west coast on a regular basis. Indications are that the Chinese piolt flew too close to the American plane as it make a turn...8 to 10 feet was the Department of Defense analysis as I recall...far too close.
The American position needs to be foremost about the saftey of the military personnel. However, the government can't make international decisions based on the morale of the military...they knew the job was dangerous when they took it.
------------------ The negotiations have failed. Shoot him! ~ C. Montgomery Burns
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