posted
Well, I finally saw the movie last weekend with my dad while I was on vacation in Florida. We both liked the film, but of course I'd be remiss if I didn't point out some nitpicks (major spoilers ahead). $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ I was going to talk about the pointlessness of the whole Kolarus dune buggy & chase scene, but Aban beat me to it. And as far as the whole B4 thing is concerned, I didn't have a problem with B4's existance as much as I had a problem with the whole, "since he looks exactly like Data, we can kill Data off yet still have Data alive at the end of the movie." Sorry, John Logan, but when Data died in the Scimitar explosion, AFAIAC, he died for good. No moronic, off-key singing android duplicate is going to replace him.
Shinzon, the Remans, & the Romulans: Shinzon considers himself a Reman, right? Shinzon hates the Romulans, right? Yet his whole reason for releasing the thalaron radiation on Earth is so that the Romulans can invade the Federation. Never mind that the Federation will hardly be crippled by Earth's destruction, his plan doesn't fundamentally make sense. It might have been different if Shinzon told the Romulans he was going to do this for them, but then used his weapon on Romulus instead. But he did want to destroy Earth. Why? Because it's Picard's home planet? What does Shinzon have against the Federation? And how will any of this help the Remans? If the Romulans conquered the Federation, wouldn't that make the Remans even more of an underling race to them? If Shinzon hated the Romulans as much as was evident in the movie, then he should have subjugated them with his weapon, declared himself and the Remans as the new rulers of Romulus, and then make real peace with the Federation so that at the least, he could contact Picard & ask him for help in stopping the genetic resequencing causing his dying. But instead, he acted like an idiot, got himself killed, and did absolutely nothing for the Remans.
Plus, I had no credible sympathy for the Remans as a slave race whatsoever. It was also annoying that it was never made clear if the Remans were of Vulcan descent or an actual race native to Remus.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Well, Shinzon's motivations were more or less clear, I thought, if not wildly convincing. He was going to destroy what he believed fate had taken away from him; namely, a happy life growing up on Earth.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
What bugged me about the B-4 part was that Shinzon of some of his peeps were able to *find* B-4 in the first place. I can't believe these prototypes are just scattered throughout the galaxy. How the hell did he find him? I don't recall that being explained, only that it took effort to find him and modify him. Just how many places did Soong hide out to build these things? He must have done alot of packing.
Also, isn't it a coinkydink that, as unlikely as it is that he could've happened across this andriod, the android's twin brother is Picard's 2nd officer and Picard is the one that Schinzon is after.
It was just all to device-driven with no explanation. It felt awkward.
Also, I was thinking about this this morning and it seems to me that the movie was very much trying to be Wrath of Khan... essentially one long face off between the two ships... But the pacing was wrong... it didn't have the constant tension the WoK did...
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Having read through all the back pages, I must say I totally agree with the "just because" feel of the movie, and that they really didn't concern themselves with the larger Trek Universe. This was a Trek movie made for mid-grade Trek fans. People who know just enough about the franchise as a whole to not pick up on the inconsistancies.
Picard's academy picture was a perfect example of this. They had a choice: give him hair and allow the real fans to have a tie in to his established Academy look, or make him bald so that there is no confusion as to who is being shown in the picture. They copped out.
They had a choice: Give us some information on Worf after the events of DS9's finale, or don't waste time with stuff that everyone in the theater won't understand. They copped out. Worf is a major character in the series... does he not deserve some attention? Noone but Picard and Data got anything out of this film.
It was a so-so movie... I'm just having trouble getting over the letdowns.
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: What bugged me about the B-4 part was that Shinzon of some of his peeps were able to *find* B-4 in the first place. I can't believe these prototypes are just scattered throughout the galaxy. How the hell did he find him? I don't recall that being explained, only that it took effort to find him and modify him. Just how many places did Soong hide out to build these things? He must have done alot of packing.
Also, isn't it a coinkydink that, as unlikely as it is that he could've happened across this andriod, the android's twin brother is Picard's 2nd officer and Picard is the one that Schinzon is after.
It was just all to device-driven with no explanation. It felt awkward.
Also, I was thinking about this this morning and it seems to me that the movie was very much trying to be Wrath of Khan... essentially one long face off between the two ships... But the pacing was wrong... it didn't have the constant tension the WoK did...
B4 was a trap set by Shinzon and was likely built from stolen plans (remember the "vulcan" spy from Data's Day?). It would explain why the memory port was there and why it could not handle Data's memories (at least not all in one shot). There is TONS of stuff we'll never know about Shinzon, like how he rose from lowly slave to Commander of a Romulan taskforce in the Dominion War.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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And in fairness with regard to the "just because" feeling, there were several things that apparently got cut, based on the script... The feeling of the movie results mostly from piss-poor editing, of course, but it indicates that the original plan was to explain things a bit more. Strange, because I thought Suart Baird was a "renowned" editor before trying the director thing.
posted
I hate to say it, but I'm of the opinion that the "even numbered movies don't suck" streak has been broken... this movie was reasonably entertaining on its own, but it was a horrible "Star Trek" movie.
First off, there were all of the "just because" elements that Sol pointed out. So many different plot points cropped up at various junctures simply because they served the plot. Despite the grandiose claims that John Logan made concerning the TNG characters, the usual suspects were still glassed over in favor of the major characters -- Picard and Data got the focus, Riker had a crucial role but no focus, Troi got a few good scenes... and there was almost no focus on Geordi, Crusher, or Worf.
It's a damn shame that TNG had to go out with an over-dramatized whimper rather than a bang.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: They had a choice: Give us some information on Worf after the events of DS9's finale, or don't waste time with stuff that everyone in the theater won't understand. They copped out.
Actually, I blame DS9 for this particular foible. Sure having Worf become the ambassador to the Klingon Empire made perfect sense, but we also knew that it meant a) a cheesy cop out explanation for why he was on the Enterprise in ST:X or b) no explanation at all (which proved to be true). I say now as I said at the close of the show, they should've just sent him back to the Enterprise.
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Screw that. If he was there for the wedding/reception, all they had to say was that they were taking him to meet with a Klingon ship en-route to Risa. (Why the Federation Flagship can be spared to taxi newleyweds is another question in itself)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Well, many of us who have read the early draft of the script know the reason Worf is on the Enterprise. Logan did provide an explanation, it's just that do to poor editing on the part of Baird as Ryan had said, the explanation was taken out. I'm pretty sure that once the DVD comes out with the deleted scenes, you'll get the explanation in spoken dialog.
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Registered: Feb 2000
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Just saw it this evening, first day of release in the UK. Yay! Missed the first five minutes due to there never being anywhere to park at Greenwich fucking Filmworks. Boo!
Overall I really enjoyed it. It was nowhere near as bad as I was expecting. Bad luck that my wife, who's never been to see a Trek film before, absolutely can't stand Janeway so was miffed to see her appear in a cameo. But I spotted Brian Singer's walk-on so felt quite chuffed.
I share the general deeling of dubousness over the dune-buggy chase, it felt a bit weird. Kate thought it was cool though, especially the jump into the shuttle's cargo bay. 8)
-------------------- "Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It?s us. Only us." Rorschach
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Brian Singer the Director? Where was he? Redshirt?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
a post on the bridge.. im sure i have a still of it somewhere.. his lines were cut though, but he is still visible i believe.
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