posted
My original point, or part of it, I think, was that Star Trek II is artfully made. It isn't, in my opinion, good only because it is "fun" or a "good way to waste two hours," though it is certainly both.
Registered: Mar 1999
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TMP is another matter. I have got the Director's Edition DVD and the old Version on VHS, recorded on the telly. I think the D.E. version is quite watchable yet I don't find it very exciting or even thought-provoking. The acting as very wooden and I can't see why it should be considered a "masterpiece" of Bob Wise. Only the cinematography - especially the scenes featuring the "new" Enterprise - is highly artful IMHO.
On the whole I prefer TWOK to TMP anytime.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
Registered: Nov 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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posted
"[TMP] is cinematic, intelligent, thought-provoking, and exciting..."
Check, fail, fail, fail.
"Again, not that [TWOK] isn't good, but it's not at all introspective science fiction."
And from the way most so-called "introspective" sci-fi is in fact less mentally stimulating than a trip on a crappy psychedelic drug, we can all be thankful for that.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
My own opinion is that TMP is a terrible film, with a dull plot stretched out over too much movie. It's bad when movies use fast pacing and constant action to substitute for plot or character development, but there is such a thing as being too slow, as well. Especially when there still isn't much character development or story as a result. Except in one or maybe two exterior shots, I find no improvement in the DE (and at least one change I actively dislike).
As for being "introspective" and 'thought-provoking," TMP certainly isn't in the company of Asimov, or Barnes or Varley or Gerrold.
On the other hand, I enjoy watching TMP just to see so much of the interior of the Enterprise, and to hear ship announcements and comm traffic that ties in with the FJ technical manual.
posted
Most good "thought provoking" Sci-Fi would never get greenlighted by a studio.
I was reading an intro to a story by Dan Simmons where he mentions that the story was originally a pitch for ST: Voyager.
He (over the phone) detailed the premise of Voyager entering a binary star system, meeting inhabitants that altered themselves to life/travel in space with no ship. They would offer to enhance Voyager's crew and the moral dilemma would be in who stays and who goes. The (unnammed) producer asked at the pitch's end "One question: What's a Binary Star?"
This is why there's no "thought provolking sci-fi"- the producers are not sci-fi fans.
So Simmons said fuck it and it became a really good (IMHO, at least) short story from the universe of his Hyperion novels (themselves excellent reads- my favorite sci fi, really).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
TMP had a very 2001 quality to it. But I'm not sure how exciting it was intended, maybe 27 years ago, yeah...but most of us here are not even old enough to remember seeing it in that light, so of course our persepectives are skewed.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Actually I think we're among the few who might find redeemable qualities to TMP.
Most audiences today (non-trek fanatics) expect mindless CGI-laden explosion fests (both Tomb Raider movies were box office smashes, yet even the re-release of Alien tanked.)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Tomb Raider did OK ($131,144,183 domestic, according to IMDb.), but smash seems to be stretching it, and Tomb Raider 2 only made $65,653,758 domestic, and just $156,453,758 worldwide.
I also don't think you can draw many parallels between that and Alien. Or any, for that matter. A new film compared to the limited re-release of something 20+ years old? (Though check out how quickly the number of showings seems to have dropped: data.)
For that matter, I like Alien as much as the next guy, but I don't think I'd hold it up as a landmark of cerebral cinema anyway.
(Personal facts: Saw Tomb Raider in theater because people from my physics class wanted to, have not seen the sequel, traveled to see Alien's rerelease at the cajoling of friends. Well, the cajoling had more to do with whether I would please drive them across the Cascades.)
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: He (over the phone) detailed the premise of Voyager entering a binary star system, meeting inhabitants that altered themselves to life/travel in space with no ship. They would offer to enhance Voyager's crew and the moral dilemma would be in who stays and who goes. The (unnammed) producer asked at the pitch's end "One question: What's a Binary Star?"
If I were the producer, my one question would be: "What possible relevence does the binary star system have to the story?"
quote:Originally posted by MarianLH: On the other hand, I enjoy watching TMP just to see so much of the interior of the Enterprise, and to hear ship announcements and comm traffic that ties in with the FJ technical manual.
Your post makes me sad.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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