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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » General Trek » Obsession with canon and other thoughts... (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Obsession with canon and other thoughts...
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35

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Easy in principle, Omeghead, but there's one problem: we don't know what part of the Defiant's superstructure represents the bridge. Don't assume that it's the rounded-ends redtangle you can see on top.
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Omega
Some other beginning's end
Member # 91

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Omeghead. There's a new one. And you have a point, but it would be a logical assumption, as it appears to be the same shape as the bridge, IIRC, and is in the right place for the bridge. If it looks like a duck...

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"I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people . . ." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition."
- Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1791



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Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102

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Has anyone ever made a close examination of the Valiant interior deck structures, as revealed during the explosion? I played the scene over and over again on a quicktime movie at Maximum Defiant, but the resolution is too low to allow me to discern anything interesting. We *might* be able to observe the number of decks within the forward half of the Defiant which breaks off, but again, a better image is required.

It is also possible to determine the exact scale of the escape pods (compared to the entire vessel) during the explosion scene. If we determine their size using the human figures in the Drexler cutaway, multiply the number by the factor obtained from the onscreen measurements, we might be able to get an overall length.

Boris

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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide


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Nim
The Aardvark asked for a dagger
Member # 205

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If I see any inconsistencies in an episode, it's seldom enough for me to jump to the phone and inform my buddies. I may think about it for a while, but then I remember..."Hey, I'm watching Star Trek, one of my favourite shows"...and then the, like negative waves fade, man.
So my policy is, what you see on the screen is canon Trek. And if it doesn't make sense then at least it's Trek. And I love Trek.

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-You're crazy!!!
-Funny, I thought I was pisces!


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Dax
Paradox
Member # 191

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Omega: I've tried lining up a schematic of the bridge with the Drexler Defiant top view, but it doesn't fit very well. The proper location for the bridge is rather ambiguous. Plus, no-one seems to know the actual length of the bridge set, anyway. It's a pity they never showed the shuttle-bay interior.

Boris: I'll go and analyze those explosions...

Nimrod: Yep, even with the inconsistencies, I still love Trek (especially DS9).

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK


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bear
Active Member
Member # 124

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I knew I was avoiding this thread for some reason.
lol@forum....
60m
"I am right you are wrong"
"yes"
"no"
170m
"I am right you are wrong"
"yes"
"no"
100m
"I am right you are wrong"
"yes"
"no"
200km
"I am right you are wrong"
"yes"
"no"
1m
"I am right you are wrong"
"yes"
"no"
Need I remind the forum that with this thread we are disregarding one of our most sacred rules.
NO DEFIANT LENGTH THREADS!!!!!!!!

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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9268/index.html


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Dax
Paradox
Member # 191

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bear: Why not just continue avoiding the thread? I don't go reading the Star Wars forum and then complain I hate the topic.

Boris: Unfortunately, I didn't get anything deck-wise from the Valiant death scene. It nicely shows where the pods come from, though. Do you think the Defiant pods at 2.3m width would be big enough? If so, we're in luck.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK


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Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102

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We will probably never know what the intended scaling of those pods is (*if* there is an intended scaling at all), but in any case, Doug Drexler's 2.3m size is much more likely to be true than Rick Sternbach's 3.6m measurement, which was clearly made using a 560' length as a reference rather than the human figures standing next to the 'boats. We know that Sternbach wasn't getting any other numbers from the Effects.

That being the case, I suspect that the pods were never intended to hold 6-8 people. Defiant's standard complement of 47-50 would allow for 26 two-person pods, but we should probably increase this number a bit, say to four or five to allow for unusual staffings.

Boris

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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide


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Dax
Paradox
Member # 191

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I'd be highly surprised if the Defiant actually has 26 pods. Drexler's plans depict more pods than what the on-screen evidence has proven.

According to the plans there are 3 pods lauched from each of what we've always considered the impulse engines (those red circles). There's other inconsistencies, of course.

Anyway, there seems to only be 12 or maybe 14 pods in reality. Each one is probably meant to carry up to 6 crew, given the hexagonal shape (and ship crew complement).

We should also take into account that the shuttles could be used for abandoning ship.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK

[This message has been edited by Dax (edited October 26, 1999).]


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Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102

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Dax: we can certainly count only 12 or so pods in the Defiant explosion scene. Valiant explosion only reveals about 5 or 6. Of course, there is no reason for the entire complement of 26 to be released for a crew of 50, and I believe that Valiant held a smaller crew, correct?

Boris

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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide


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Dax
Paradox
Member # 191

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Boris: I think you're missing my point. I was avoiding doing this but I'll explain in more detail.

If we assume that those red dots are really impulse engines we automatically lose 6 pods (leaving 20 in total).

Now, as far as I can tell, the Deck 3 shuttlebay area only has 4 pods in "TCFoE", not 6 (leaving 18 in total).

Those hatches aft of the bridge only have 4 pods in total, not 8. Both "Valiant" and "TCFoE" reveal that. Now we have 14 pods in total.

Whether or not those pods fore of the bridge exist or not is debatable. There is no hatch(es) for them. Minus them we have 12 pods in total - what we see in "TCFoE".

I don't have a problem with the Defiant having 12 6 crew pods at 2.3m each. It'd be crampy but most of the Defiant design is anyway.

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK


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Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
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I agree, but the Defiant and the Valiant also show pods in locations that are -not- in the blueprints. We can use the surplus of pods to fill these additional locations.

For example, the shuttlebay pods during the Defiant explosion are closer to the opening than they are in the blueprints, while the two pairs of pods flanking the deflector nose are a bit further forward on the Valiant then they are on the Defiant (or was it the other way around?). We could easily take the six pods from the impulse engines, and put four of them in the shuttlebay area at their onscreen locations. The other two might go to the front to say, the front port side, and serve to explain the inconsistency in positioning of the front pods between the Valiant and the Defiant (i.e. there are actually two sets of -four- front pods each). The front starboard side might then be covered by two pods from the now-crowded shuttlebay area.

The pods in the blueprints that were not seen onscreen, and that do not compromise vital systems such as the impulse engines, could be left alone as merely unused during evacuation.

Boris

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"Wrong again. Although we want to be scientifically accurate, we've found that selection of [Photon Energy Plasma Scientifically Inaccurate as a major Star Trek format error] usually indicates a preoccupation with science and gadgetry over people and story."

---a Writers' Test from the Original Series Writer's Guide

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 28, 1999).]


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Dax
Paradox
Member # 191

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Indeed, the Valiant pods near the nose are located just fore of the USS Defiant ones. They come from a different panel/hatch that is right next to the other. It is reasonable to assume that the Defiant-class is equipped with 8 pods near the nose, rather than 4. So going by the "canon" we have a total of 16 escape pods coming from 8 hatches. It is interesting to note that every hatch has two pods each. I personally see Drexler's plans as somewhat apocryphal - it does have some horribly silly mistakes (dare I mention the "targeting sensors" ).

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"Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets)
Dax's Ships of STAR TREK


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Baloo
Curmudgeon-in-Chief
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Of course, if the ship is really so small by Starfleet standards, they might have a few more pods than the crew can conceivably use. That way no matter where you are aboard the ship, you can get off fast! When a ship that small starts to explode you don't want to run the length of the ship to get out.

The above was pure speculation, but it makes sense, as long as there is room for more pods than have been seen onscreen. Besides, a small ship like that, being of unconventional (and still somewhat experimental) design, might not be quite as standardized from one build to the next, and Starfleet might vary the design slightly from one ship to the next, trying to determine the optimum mix of equipment.

--Baloo

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If you speak and no-one listens, it still counts as long as [i]YOU[/] have learned something.
www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/

[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited October 28, 1999).]


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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Run the length of the ship, eh...?

"*running onto the bridge, panting* This ship is too big! If I walked, the movie would be over!" -President Scroob, Spaceballs

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"I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music."
-Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969


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