posted
There's a book out there called "The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" that was published back in 1994 or so. They go into a bit of detail about some of the effects done for the Wolf 359 battle, and there's a half-page image of the Reliant studio model. It's definitely a full-size model, and I'm pretty sure that they say it's the old Reliant.
I would suggest that the additions made to the model for "Cause and Effect" were almost certainly intended to be temporary. When you've got a huge, expensive shooting model like that, you're not going to permanently deface it for just a single episode without good reason. Those hull additions were probably easily removed.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
In reference to the building of CGI models of the Miranda and Excelsior, I would think it would be primarily because:
a.) There was really good reference from which to construct them. (The physical models.) b.) Like the Nebula and Galaxy, these ships were very identifiable as typical Starfleet vessels. They would be familiar to the audience.
Personally, I think it's quite logical that these would be the most heavily-reproduced/used designs. True, it would've been nice to see designs for more of the unseen classes, but I'm not dissatisfied with what we got. (Aside from the fact that towards the end there was so much use of stock footage rather than new shots.)
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
Actually, that was something that kind of fit in, regarding the CGI models. For the original War Arc, they used almost exclusively Galaxies, Excelsiors, and Mirandas, with a few occasional FC ships thrown in.
By the time we got to "Tears of the Prophets," there were several more of the Akiras and Steamrunners in the foreground. And then in "The Changing Face of Evil," we saw quite a lot of the "new" ships on the front lines.
This makes a lot of sense for Starfleet as a military/naval organization. They've got loads of the older cruisers/"destroyers" out there on the frontier, and they make due with the tried-and-true in the beginning. But as the wartime production ramps up, they can deploy a lot more of the new ships, and let them take over more duties. Not that the old ships were replaced completely, or even mostly, of course.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
Regarding the Miranda in First Contact, it could very well have been CGI. Both Mojo and Hutzel have confirmed that the Defiant was CGI so it's not impossible that the Miranda, Nebula, and Oberth in the same battle weren't CGI too. IIRC even the Ent-E was supposed to be CGI in at least some of the battle scene.
posted
The level of hatred on display here is shocking. Did Miranda-class ships kill all your mums, or what?
And also, I really doubt that they did have time to design a new ship. The Sacrifice of Angels required more CGI than had ever been used in Star Trek ever (more than First Contact, easily). They'd have been working flat off just to get the thing finished. Throw in that, at the time, they possibly only had CGI models for the FC ships, and maybe the Galaxy, then trying to fit in new ships would have been a nightmare. Designing them, getting Sternbach or whoever to put on all the Starfleet details, getting Berman to approve, making necessary modifcations and more would all have to be done before they even got close to starting on creating the CGI model.
With the Miranda and Excelsior, they had two audience-recongised, approved designs, and physical minitures they could work from, so it makes sense that they went with those.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
And that's why we'll hate them till the greenhouse effect cooks us all.
I consider it a grievous mistake that the Miranda class was ever re-introduced to the Trek universe in "Unnatural Selection". If I had the divine power to Put Right What Once Went Wrong in TNG's season two, I'd leave "Shades of Grey" be and retcon the Lantree!
Trek was one of the first sci-fi shows to do this "next generation" thing - not just rejuvenate the main cast, but jump-start the whole setting as well. The Lantree and her successors work against that. And with Trek now spanning three distinct eras, the need for era-specific designs is greater than ever. (So what do they do? They give us the 22nd century Klingon battlecruiser...)
However, since I lack those divine powers, all I can do is hope that the Fleet will be made in the E-E's image for all the future TNG movies and possible other 24th century spinoffs. No Miranda, no Oberth, no Excelsior, no Sydney, no Constellation. Preferably none of the Excelsior kitbashes, either.
posted
But...why? We use decades old ships today. Considering how large and advanced starships are, it's not inconceivable that they'd be using even older (comparitivly) designs.
Besides, it still shows the progression of time and technology. In ST III and VI, the Excelsior was a brand new state of the art big arse starship. In TNG, it was half the size of the main ship, and in DS9, there are hundreds of the things flying about. It's move from top of the line prototype to workhorse shows the advancement of years just fine.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
Technically, I have nothing against 100-yr-old starships. Even million-year-old ships would make perfect sense. Space technology could be made to last. And in a Trek-style multicultural environment, there would be little or no "cold war" style competition to outdate old designs. And yes, it makes sense for a former frontline warship/explorer to become a garbage scow later on.
But artistically, I want era-specific looks. TPTB have the resources to give me those looks if they want. They don't. And the supernatural powers of a moderator aren't as much above those of a mere mortal as I'd hoped. Which is why I will whine and bitch about it.
TNG *deserves* a TNG-style garbage scow, as much as it deserves a TNG-style hero ship.
posted
See, this is where the differing that we share is happening. I'd much rather have an old design be used for crappy jobs, than have them come up with a brand new design that's suppossed to be old and crappy. It just seems like a waste of resources (and I don't doubt that if they did spend a lot of time coming up with 24th century workhorse ships, then it would take time away from doing other jobs).
And your "Shades of Grey" comment shows you to be a crazy person anyway. Next thing you know you'll be saying "Enterprise-class", and I'll be forced to hurt you.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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Prismatic EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
i liked seeing Miranda class ships in TNG. i did not like the Miranda class in the dominion war. i think there were enough Excelsior class ships that being in the Dominion war made sense, and the Excelsior made perfect sense as the workhorse of TNG. however, i wish they had come up with some more ships for the dominion war.
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posted
But then (as someone once said) the Defiant wouldn't have been equipped with "ablative Mirandas" in The Sacrifice of Angels.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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Prismatic EdipisReks
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posted
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: But then (as someone once said) the Defiant wouldn't have been equipped with "ablative Mirandas" in The Sacrifice of Angels.
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: See, this is where the differing that we share is happening. I'd much rather have an old design be used for crappy jobs, than have them come up with a brand new design that's suppossed to be old and crappy. It just seems like a waste of resources (and I don't doubt that if they did spend a lot of time coming up with 24th century workhorse ships, then it would take time away from doing other jobs).
And your "Shades of Grey" comment shows you to be a crazy person anyway. Next thing you know you'll be saying "Enterprise-class", and I'll be forced to hurt you.
Then again, its not like Starfleet has a shortage of design people considering the sheer number of shuttle designs and uniform changes. Think about it this way, how many Galaxy class starships are there? 12? 100? Whatever. How many freighters, antimatter tanks, transport ships, etc. are there in a ratio for each Galaxy class ship?
A quick google search gives a 3000 ocean going and 1000 coastal ships in Britain's merchant fleet, compared to 61 capital fighting ships in WW1 Link
If Starfleets numbers are anywhere near comparable, you're going to gain much more efficiency and savings by redesigning a transport ship than a capital ship.
Sure, its less glamourous...
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Actually, that's a very good point. Since the Miranda had already been established as a design in use in the 24th century, they decided to use it for production reasons described above. And in episodes like "Sacrifice of Angels," they were used essentially as cannon fodder. Would you have rather seen the Mirandas with uber-cannons and taking out Jem'Hadar ships right and left?
There's no one good reason for using the Mirandas in DS9. But when you start with the production justification, it makes more sense to have them as weaker designs, at least.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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quote: Then again, its not like Starfleet has a shortage of design people considering the sheer number of shuttle designs and uniform changes. Think about it this way, how many Galaxy class starships are there? 12? 100? Whatever.
Actually, I was talking about real-world resources. Putting Sternbach or whoever on designing a Stafleet vessel (which would autmoatically require a lot more work and authorisation than a "ship of the week") would take that person away from doing other, potentially more important jobs at the office.
And the Galaxy-class question brings intense pain.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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