quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Need to add the caveat "presuming the Endeavour was there", just to make sure we all know you understand there's no evidence supporting that position.
--Jonah
Oh, sorry.
For "the Endeavour", read "whichever ship survived and collected the escape pods".
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Yup. All that was even mentioned was that Captai Amisov SAID that the Borg were really not nice. I don't think they even mentioned that the Endeavor ever encountered them, no? For all we know, the Endeavor was looing over the remains of a Borg encounter, or just barely managed to escape one themselves, or Amisov had just finished watching "Kill Borg Vol. 1" on the holodeck.
posted
I think that the fact Janeway doesn't mention how the Endeavour encountered the Borg is an important factor here.
If it was the sole surviving ship of Wolf 359, presumably it would be famous, and could just be mentioned without qualification.
However, if it just fought the Borg in some random battle, she would probably have said "the Endeavour, which encountered the Borg 3 years ago" or something.
What were her exact words in that scene?
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posted
I know Janeway said she'd been going over actual encounters with the Borg looking for insight. Amisov was one of the captains she quoted. It stands to reason that he actually encountered them.
Think too of how the captain of the only ship to survive that battle... most likely barely survived... would feel about the Borg after having watched them slaughter the crews of 39 other ships. I think it would jive pretty well with what his log entry said.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
its possible he was the xo of a destroyed ship at wolf 359 who escaped in an escape pod, and then became captain of another ship.. i mean, that's sisko's story
saying 'Captain Sisko of the Defiant says the Borg are, like, totally the worst enemy ever' doesnt necessarily follow that the Defiant was the only ship that escaped 359..
logic, kids
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Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: I think that the fact Janeway doesn't mention how the Endeavour encountered the Borg is an important factor here.
That's what I was trying to say. If Janeway is equating another captain with Picard concerning experiences with the Borg, then he's got to be pretty famous.
I also take serious issue with the idea of other skirmishes with the Borg taking place -- with Starfleet hearing about them, anyway. Consider that both times we saw the Borg in TNG after BOBW, it came as a major shock and was treated as a serious threat. Heck, Starfleet had a whole fleet running around on the border when the colonies were threatened following the single attack in "Descent." I find it hard to believe that Starfleet knew that any Borg were snooping around their borders, if there really were Borg scouts on a regular basis at all.
Not to mention that between "Q Who?" and BOBW, it was as if Starfleet hadn't heard anything from the Borg at all. That was why Starfleet thought they had more time to prepare, after all.
Therefore, if any Starfleet ships were met by the Borg, either before or after BOBW, had to have been out of contact and were destroyed or assimilated entirely.
Which means that Captain Amasov was most likely a survivor of Wolf 359, commanding the ship that got away. Because I somehow doubt that Janeway was looking for inspiration from desk-bound analysts who were just reacting to the casualty numbers afterwards... Also, I think that the casualties would've been pretty high aboard most every ship.
On a related topic, there's one thing that no one's brought up directly, but has been mentioned many times -- the fact that the Borg assimilated lots of Starfleet people at the battle. So, that means that all those wrecks we saw didn't have very many corpses in them... because a few hours previously there were Borg wandering through their corridors.
So, if whichever ship Hanson was on wasn't vaporized outright, then we could've seen a pair of mechanized arms reaching onto the screen to grab poor Admiral J.P. at one point. (Yeah yeah, the transmission was jammed...)
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posted
Another option is that Asimov and the Endeavour encountered Lores borg for a skirmish. (while "captain beverly" was on watch for several hours before the borg returned).
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It isn't unreasonable to assume that the Enterprise wasn't the last ship to come across the Borg vessel from "I, Borg." And if it was primarily interested in keeping an eye on things, rather than assimilating, it might explain why the unlucky starship captains involved managed to survive long enough to write about.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: I can't remember -- has anyone suggested Amasov wasn't the captain of the Endeavour yet at the time of Wolf 359?
--Jonah
quote:Originally posted by Capped in Mic: its possible he was the xo of a destroyed ship at wolf 359 who escaped in an escape pod, and then became captain of another ship.. i mean, that's sisko's story
saying 'Captain Sisko of the Defiant says the Borg are, like, totally the worst enemy ever' doesnt necessarily follow that the Defiant was the only ship that escaped 359..
posted
Although both threads started out different, they seem to have converged. . . I still say, it's daft to assume the mianstream Federation's only contact with the Borg - in whgich the Starfleet ships weren't totally destroyed - were the Enterprises', and Wolf 359, and Typhon/Sector 001.
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