posted
If the Federation is so immense and powerfull, why do they employ a fleet of ageing, underpowered and minimally armed ships? As Laforge says to Scotty in 'Relics' regarding the USS Jenolan, "just because something is old doesn't mean we throw it away" try telling that to the crew of the Oberth class Bonstell trying to take on a Borg Cube at wolf 359... The federation flagship as of 2064 was the Galaxy class Enterprise, one of only six at the time according to the great bird, was dwarfed and outmatched tactically by a Warbird, and evidence suggests the Romulan fleet consists almost exclusively of these death machines.
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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posted
Not all of Starfleet's ships are built for combat. I would wager that most aren't. As for the Oberth at Wolf 359, when you're desperate, you'll try anything.
posted
I'd deffinately agree that very few are built for combat but its their age thats the problem, when you watch the 'Sacrifice of Angels' you see mostly Excellsior and Mirranda class ships going up against a powerfull military force, why not have a fleet of Galaxy's and Nebula's? The Romulans can build and staff this many capital ships, as can the Cardassians and the Klingons...
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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I'm sure that BOBW would have been a much more compelling story if a super-fanboy multiple quantum torpedo, batmobile armoured, with metaphasic shields and pulse killamajiggers armed starship had wiped out the Borg with a single shot.
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posted
Kirk's federation wasn't outmatched the way Sisko's was, you never saw any 'Archer' era ships in the Spacedock in 'the search for spock', they were all contemporary designs. The Bonstell wasn't in the best of both worlds anyway so it didn't make any differance to the story...
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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posted
Umm, actually... If you look hard enough, you can spot one of 'em McQuarrie study models for the never made Trek TV movie / "In Thy Image", sitting in the spacedock amidst all these Excelsiors and Mirandas and Connie-refits. Definitely anachronistic-looking...
I wonder what Kirk-era Starfleet would have looked like if engaged in a war. Half the fleet in the white refit style, half in TOS grey?
quote:Originally posted by B.J.: when you're desperate, you'll try anything.
B.J.
Often the case when you're drunk.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Incidently, there's no reason to necessarily think that a Romulan Warbird is anything but large. Prior to the latter half of DS9 they had never been seen in combat. The Romulans are usually engaged in conspiracies and espionage and the pursuit of superweapons. If they really had a strong "traditional" fleet, would they need to pursue all these other careful, cautious plans?
Someone, probably Lee, has suggested here that the Romulan Warbird might be primarily a psychological weapon, with the entire Empire being a lot more like North Korea than, say, Russia or China (to borrow the original series' Cold War allegories).
[Perhaps one reason why the Romulans have never sought more engagement with the outside world is that the Neutral Zone actually protects their fragile hold on whatever populations they've conquered, or even their own people?]
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
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posted
If I recall, the only time we see more than two Connies in TOS is the episode with the M-5 computer and the wargames. I forget what ships were involved ( I think the flagship was the Lexington ) But the FX were just 4 Enterprises composited. When we look at the two new BB's that went after the Scimitar in Nemesis, they didn't seem to take much of a beating before being knocked out (Compared to the EE) so perhaps the Warbirds weren't all that powerful.
It appears to me that the Constitution class was much like the U.S.S. Constitution itself, generally better armed and well rounded than the frigates of other nations. A ship able to outgun its contemporaries and outrun say a ship-of-the-line.
Side note to any history buffs/ Brits....
H.M.S. Guerriere......Just how is this supposed to be pronounced? I've always heard it as GEE-ay. Is this right?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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posted
I don't think it was me said any such thing. I will await some creative searching by some smartass like Jason to conclusively prove me wrong on that, however.
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"Guerriere" is French for the feminine pronunciation of "warrior". It's pronounced "GEH-ree-EHR". The masculine pronunication is Guerrier, or "GEH-ree-eh". Why?
And hey, the USN routinely uses ships that are thirty or more years old. Less so these days, but during the Cold War, anything went. If you extrapolate from the NCC numbers, most ships in the TNG era were probably no more than 50-60 years old, trending lower. If things really DO last much longer in the future, this isn't unreasonable.
All that's left is the use of antiquated designs - but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The US Army standard sidearm was the Colt 1911, a .45 pistol that was standard from 1911 through to the first Gulf War, with few model changes in between. They STOPPED making the pistol in 1945, and had enough to last over forty years...
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And AK-47 will probably continue to be the infantry weapon of choice for the next 200 years, matching some Klingon ship designs in longevity.
Navies in general have always had a "presence" aspect overriding most "usefulness" aspects. A mostly non-combatworthy ship (like all those "fire support cruisers" of the 1960s USN) is better than no ship in missions of power projection, which is a big part of what navies do. ...Even if a layman might think the money would be better spent retiring her and building a newer ship (or 1/4 of a newer ship, as it often goes).
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I don't think it was me said any such thing. I will await some creative searching by some smartass like Jason to conclusively prove me wrong on that, however.
Too bad: I think it's an original and smart idea. Of course it's not yours.
I always figured the Warbird's main psychological weapon (within the Empire) was the cloaking device.
More because it's unknown (to the general populace within the Romulan Empire) how many ships the Romulans operate and their whereabouts (possibly unknown to anyone but the Preator himself- how better to keep the populations in check with a limited number of starships?).
Kirk's Starfleet being somehow superior to that of the DS9 era is laughable: encounters with neighboring powers were far less frequent back then (as the Fed- indeed everyone's territory- was far smaller).
The larger the Federation becomes, the more reliant it will be on ships to patrol it's boundries- the practicality of starship construction would mean that older starships would be used and refittede as long as possible (particularly in sectors within the federation where it's unlikely they'll encounter hostile starships).
As Picard put it,Starfleet is not a military organization."
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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