posted
I agree, but these ships aren't involved en mass in front line actions. Either there aren't that many of them (deffinantly the case with the Sovereign I assume) or they are not suitable for any kind of combat (the Nova, the Equinox had to hide from a bird of prey once according to janeway, what chance it would have against the Jem Hadar i don't know!!!) Either point served my arguement about 'most' of starfleets ships being elderly and outclassed by its rivals.
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posted
I'd imagine that there were more fronts in the Dominion War than the one that just happened to be centered on Deep Space Nine. We know stuff was going on near Betazed and Benzar (or was it Bolarus?). And, depending on where the Breen are located relative to the Cardassian Union, there's another potential hotbed of combat towards the end of the war.
We never saw the make up of the fleets in these arenas. However, given how close occupied Betazed apparently was to Earth, Vulcan, and Andorian, I would imagine that Starfleet may have loaded the fleets protecting the core worlds by pointing an inordinate amount of newer ships there. Hell, this might have been with the Enterprise-E was. In Insurrection he lamented that they never explored anymore, and we know he wasn't hanging around Deep Space 9.
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posted
True, but the fleet that attempted to retake DS9 was a combination of two fleets, one of which had previously been deployed along the Vulcan border. I think it was Benzar and the Romulans liberated it, its a shame the Breen weren't explored more, we never even managed to see their cloaking device in action, although this is probably how they managed to attack Earth.
When Aban mentioned the ships in the garveyard that resembled a Galaxy, the only one of those Kitbashes I thought resembled a Galaxy was the Proto-Nebula, but I 'thought' that was what was being referred to. I apologise for any distress I may have caused...
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quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: Either point served my arguement about 'most' of starfleets ships being elderly and outclassed by its rivals.
The enemy ships that we saw, at any rate.
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posted
I said they resembled the Nebula. Because they're all older than the Galaxy. But the creators of the models said they were supposed to use many of the design elements of the Galaxy Class. And many of them do, including saucers and nacelles, indicating that they are, while not state of the art during Wolf 359, certainly nothing to sneeze at. And given the fact that they've been around for a little while, we can assume that there are a reasonable number of them in service. No, we never saw them in the DS9 fleets... but we have on-screen evidence of their existance.
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: True, but the fleet that attempted to retake DS9 was a combination of two fleets, one of which had previously been deployed along the Vulcan border.
Yeah, the Fifth Fleet was pulled from Vulcan and joined with the Second Fleet for Operation Return. The Ninth Fleet was also supposed to go with them, but it didn't arrive in time. Later, it would be based at Deep Space Nine; earlier, we saw the Seventh Fleet get decimated. The highest fleet number we heard was ten, and they were the idiots that let Betazed get conquered. So, assuming that there are only ten fleets, we've only seen about half the combat-capable ships in Starfleet (assuming each fleet has roughly the same number of ships). Still plenty of places out there for newer, powerful ships to be hanging out.
Edit: Too many people too quick on the draw this morning. I need coffee.
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WizArtist II
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posted
Just to throw another wrench in the works...
Fleet numbers might have nothing to do with ships, but admirals. In WW2, the only difference between the 3rd and 5th fleets were the admiral in charge at the time.
Same ships, different I.I.C. (Idiot in Charge)
[ March 11, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: WizArtist II ]
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posted
Just because they're not there doesn't mean they don't exist. For all we know the fleets near DS9 are just old ships and doesn't represent the whole fleet. Look at it this way:
In World War II, the US had ten new battleships and about a dozen WWI era battleships. The old New York class battleships were in the Atlantic, so if you go by what you see in the Atlantic, the US had no fleet carriers, a handful of escort carriers, massive amounts of convoy escorts of varying size and two or three older battleships.
For all we know the 2nd fleet might be full of New Orleans, Nebluas, Novas, Ambassadors, Cheyennes, and newer classes and no Excelsiors or Mirandas.
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posted
I always got the impression the seventh fleet was something of an elite unit as it always seems to be involved in the major off-screen battles, although it does take several maulings. Also there's something in the way O'brien reacts when Nog questions weather or not they can handle the dominion. "Your damn right they can!" Perhaps Starfleet threw all its eggs in one basket and sent a fleet of top of the line ships to the Tyra system, this could be what made the defeat all the more devestating...
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