posted
"Yes they were kit-bash proto-nebulas as seen in Riker's ready room in future imperfect."
A) I don't understand the sentance. B) Nothing in Future Imperfect was real.
If we assume that the model was taken from Riker's memory and is thus a real starfleet design, Riker having the model in his office doesn't make it an old design. It could have been state of the art when Riker went on the away mission, thus being fresh in his mind.
posted
^I think hes trying to somehow impress us by telling us where the ships originate from. My guess was always that they originated from the Grand PooBaa of HeeBee GeeBee Clan, but fortunately, Thawn has set me (and perhaps others here) straight.
Same with below.
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: The Klingon Freighters in DS9's final season where re-painted Cardassian freighters from return to grace.
To which I say, quizzically (and with a cocked head, no less), "really?"
Do tell.
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posted
"Matters more urgent caused my absence, now witness the result, outposts destroyed, expansion of sarcastic comment....everywhere"
the proto-nebula was a kitbash intended to be the melbourne, hence its appearance in his future ready-room. Buy the compannion if you don't believe me, or ask my mum.
As for the screenshots, one second scenes from massive battle sequences. I have a screenshot from the eppisode of Next Gen where Worf goes to look for his father, showing Bashir wearing pink slippers. That proves just as much.
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posted
You little twat. I know exactly what the proto-Nebula model is. I know the episode you're talking about. And what I'm saying is that whole episode was an alien-induced fantasy of a future that didn't actually exist. You can't use it to assume anything.
And how many times have you said "we've only got what's on screen to go by"? Here we actually have ships on screen, with actual creator commentary on how they were made and the fact that they were supposed to be cousins to the Galaxy Class... and now it doesn't count because they were only on screen for a second.
posted
I wonder if we aren't close to the point where further milking of a dry issue will only cause throbbing pain?
I mean, all the discussions Thrawn has recently sparkled have been great fun, for a while. We're starving for Trek things to discuss, what with ENT not giving us much... We can all enjoy some good-natured trolling on pages 1 through 5. But if we get insults at the page 8 mark, I'll reach for the padlock. If we get counterinsults, then that's it.
Aaaanyhow, couldn't we have this same stuff on the other side of the mirror, on the Star Wars part of the forum? We're sort of stuck here anyway; change of POV might liven things up again. This is all implicitly ST vs SW stuff anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: As for the screenshots, one second scenes from massive battle sequences. I have a screenshot from the eppisode of Next Gen where Worf goes to look for his father, showing Bashir wearing pink slippers. That proves just as much.
Fine, I challenge you to produce screenshots showing a nearly-exclusive Excelsior/Miranda fleet. But that was just about every single fleet shot available at DITL. If Excelsiors were so prevalent, I'd expect one of the shots there to show them outnumber the modern designs. The ball's in your court.
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But then again, they are the Reeves-Stevens kind of nerd things, sort of overthought and pre-chewed. Where's the fun in watching a show written by our spitting images? Where's the controversy? The fascinating internal conflict deriving from a deeply uncaring writer attitude towards technobabble? The tantalizing illogic of episodic writing?
At least in matters of "unseen ST background universe" nature, there is enough ambiguity to feed more trolls than you need to storm Helm's Deep...
quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: I have a screenshot from the eppisode of Next Gen where Worf goes to look for his father, showing Bashir wearing pink slippers. That proves just as much.
White trainers, actually. Your case is void.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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"I've done far worse than insult you back, I've hurt you, and i intend to go on hurting you, until i leave you, as you left me, as you left her, marooned for all eternity in the centre of a dead planet...burried alive...burried alive..."
The proto nebula never really existed because the Melbourne was re-designed as an Excellsior in Emissary, even if it did, it wasn't a new class of ship it was a neb with two extra engines instead of a sensor pod. They were indeed pink slippers, there's an interview with Siddig in the DS9 box set where he says they used to wear the slippers on the wooden sets to avoid noise. The screenshots were much appreciated, but I really don't have the facility in work to bring my DVD player in, the scene were they leave the starbase to reclaim DS9 is quite a wide-angles shot and its pretty exclusively Excelsiors. Case for the defense impresses me though, keep it up, right up!
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posted
You are aware that there are three proto-Nebula starships, right? There's the original one from "The Best of Both Worlds, Part 2" and "Emissary" that had two extra nacelles attached to the end of the extended secondary hull. There's the desktop model that appeared in Riker's ready room in "Future Imperfect" that differed from the first in that the extra nacelles were mounted higher. And then there's the second desktop model that sat in Sisko's DS9 ready room along side models of his Saratoga and a Daedalus-class ship. This one differed from the other two by dropping the two extra nacelles and replacing them with a pod. Cite with pictures: Ex Astris Scientia.
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posted
Yeah I've seen the shots, but they're all blatently Nebula's though. I didn't raise the proto-nebula thing anyway and don't see how it impacts the disscusion. Bored, need Vulcan nightlife...
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quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: The proto nebula never really existed because the Melbourne was re-designed as an Excellsior in Emissary, even if it did, it wasn't a new class of ship it was a neb with two extra engines instead of a sensor pod.
While it can be successfully argued that that particular proto-Nebula didn't exist, at least one of the proto-Nebula was an actual ship and can be seen on-screen (albeit blurry and a bit obscured). And if the existence of a model in the "real" timeline is considered acceptable evidence, them you have two of them are out there.
And as an aside, the differences between the proto-Nebula ships and the regular Nebula involve more than just two extra nacelles instead of pod. The big thing is that massive secondary hull instead of the more compact and streamlined hull of the regular Nebula starships. I don't know if that's enough to say that proto-Nebula starships should be given their own class or not (I'm leaning towards not at the moment considering the Constitution-class).
Massive Edit Because It's Too Early in the Morning for Me: Dropped Aban because I think he's actually arguing the other side. I think. Also, Thrawn, you were the one to bring up the proto-Nebula starships. Aban, if I'm reading him correctly on the previous page, was referring to the other Galaxy-based starships: Freedom, Springfield, Challenger, Cheyenne, and New Orleans. All incorporate Galaxy components and can be reasonably construed to be contemporary to the Galaxy-class.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
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posted
Respect, but none of these ships are seen in the battles of the DS9 era, which is where my analysis of the 'modern' starfleets capabilities come from. Although the New Orleans class Routledge is mentioned in Nor the Battle to the Strong, I don't think any of these designs have ever been seen on screen in anything other than as kit bash debres. I can appreciate the counter arguement though and expect foul-mouthed abuse to follow! Ho Hum what fun....
[ March 11, 2005, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Grand Admiral Thrawn ]
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posted
Just because they aren't seen doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there. After all, I doubt that there's only one Sovereign-class, one Nova-class, and two Intrepid-class starships, yet those are the amounts of each class we ever saw in this era. Other ships apparently missing from the fleet scenes are the Constellation-class, Oberth-class, and Ambassador-class starships. We may not have seen them in any of the fleets hanging out around Deep Space Nine, but there still all the other fleets that are busy elsewhere.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
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