Fine.. I rechecked damage. They're both the Kyushu all right...
*nods approvingly at the better scans he's seen since proposing the Cheyenne idea*
I've been a victim of bad scans! Honest!
------------------ The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
posted
The Roosevelt is almost certainly not in the wrekcage
------------------ "The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
posted
The Rosevelt was not one of the original ships mentioned in BoBW, nor in Emissary, but it was mentioned in Unity. That Voyager episode was filmed many years after BoBW was made. I would think that that ship was blown into pieces, just like the Saratoga. If there is ever another re-creation of the battle, I hope that the Lakota/Enterprise-B model is used.
------------------ We did it on the floor, We did it by the door, We did it all night, We did it under a light, So how about for tonight we do it some more...
posted
That four nacelled ship in Tom's second image is the Cheyenne - DEFINATELY - its from behind and its upside down (well the upside down bit is conjecture untill we see a pic of the underneath of the saucer (i.e. if the top is identical to the bottom) but I have fixed the gamma correction etc. anyway the pylons attach to the nacelles in the correct position, i.e. similar to how they are in the cardpicture of the Chyenne - also - you can see the cylindericalesque parts that are where the pylon meets the main body of the ship...
it is definately a Cheyenne - from behind.
I've always wondered if there is a shuttle bay at the rear middle of the saucersection/necksection... since there are already impulse engines on the saucer...
Andrew
------------------ "...it might be easier to study ancient societies from distant orbit than it might be to sit next to the Guardian of Forever with a tricorder." - Baloo, January 2000
posted
Actually, I have a (what seems to be VERY accurate) 1/1400 Starcrafts resin kit of the Awahnee which has a phaser strip directly aft between the four nacelles, but has two small shuttlebays port and starboard BELOW the primary hull (remember, it's composed of TWO galaxy saucer BOTTOMS) so the former shuttlebay behind the bridge on the bottom side is divided into two shuttlebays. Quite logical, given it's design.
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Grapeape
Ex-Member
posted
Okay, so here's my opinions and questions about Wolf359 (even though I wasn't asked )- 1.) The large "black thing" behind the bridge is the shuttlebay - in an obvious location for Galaxy-era ships. It's enlarged from the Galaxy class because the Freedom is a much smaller ship made from Galaxy-era components. The two small impulse engines were probably p/s just like on the Galaxy, New Orleans, and Cheyenne ("stablemate") classes. And the neck was probably an original one without any windows, a longer version (but not curved)of the support pylons on other classes. Single engine definately Galaxy-type. Speculation: possibly the nav deflector is somehow connected directly under the front of the primary hull, a la the Nebula class, with the engine pylon connected behind it? That would be unusual if it was true, but kind of interesting (IMHO).
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Grapeape
Ex-Member
posted
2.) New Orleans and Cheyenne classes are already well known. 3.)The Melbourne "can of worms". Since the Excelsior version was seen later, we can assume the Melbourne is intended as a Nebula in BOBW2. Probably (as many have said) the burning Galaxy-like saucer directly center screen. As Shelby said, "Kyushu" (on screen at the left), "Tolstoy" (really Chekov, the ship on the right???), "Melbourne", this might confirm this. And likely the Nebula-class Melbourne was some kind of sub-class equipped with two small secondary warp nacelles dorsally (instead of one of the equipment pods) for whatever reason, which explains the two small Galaxy-type warp nacelles seen floating above the saucer. Also matches the "Future Imperfect" studio model in this regard.
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posted
4.) The strange ship on the right. If it IS really the Chekov,then it has a round saucer with two nacelles directly above it. But it's probably NOT, since it's described as a Galaxy-like saucer with a nacelle above and below, and is probably floating off-screen somewhere. Maybe the ship with a nacelle above seen later in the episode after the commercial break, which could also be a Niagara or Rigel (whew, this is getting confusing ) - more likely, it's the ship with the consitiution-class saucer and two constitution nacelles above and the primary hull below, called Challenger class but maybe not, given the 57-series registry. So if it's NOT really Challenger class, then maybe one never assigned a class (possible!) or a Constellation class seen from a strange angle (I'm sure models of that were available)- but it really DOES seem to be the one called Challenger previously, which CANNOT be called Springfield-class (Chekov). Speculation here, but the Antares-class would be approprate (the one including USS Hermes, NCC-10-something) given we know of one constellation with a 97-prefix registry, and it is a constitution mod including Connie technology, so maybe produced afterwards, thus a 10-series registry, but this is off-topic, just maybe where they got the idea for the Antares class Hermes later. Sorry how hard to follow all this stuff is, guys.
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Grapeape, think before you type this stuff. A proof read too It's just a jumble to me.
Also, why did the Saratoga explode? All the other ships we know have jut be "cut", with large sections missing. But, the Saratoga took two hits and exploded!
Also, noticed a little problem with "Emissary". When the Saratoga lower sensor pod gets hit just after being tractored, the ship is rocked pretty hard. Then when the Bolian is calling off the damage report, he says "Direct hit, Decks 1 through 4". Unless Deck 4 is on the very bottom of the saucer, I think he just toally screwed up
------------------ "The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
posted
Emissary was made years later, so they wanted to make the battle look exciting by having ships blow up. Since Wolf 359 wasn't seen until it was over, and since the show was working on a (small) budget, they probably just simply cut apart all the scratchbuilt models and applied appropriate scorching and burning along the edges. Besides, if all the ships blew apart like the Saratoga, then we wouldn't be able to have this discussion, would we? - There wouldn't be much debris left to identify.
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Grapeape
Ex-Member
posted
Okay, i admit the Chekov post was confusing. Point well taken. What I meant was - it probably wasn't the Chekov, based on the description given for that ship, so it could be Challenger class, but based on the registry # for this ship (the Buran,NCC-57580) it might not be that one either - it seems to be too old of a design. Maybe it's a Constellation or another unnamed class?
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Grapeape
Ex-Member
posted
5.) Probably no Excelsior or Miranda models were used, only later in the Emissary remake did these show up. The Excelsior-class Roosevelt and the Miranda-class Saratoga were destroyed there, but not seen. 6.) Maybe the Constellation-class USS Valkyrie (seen in convention photos) was used? 7.)A bunch of the Excelsior prototype models were probably used, but maybe not named or identified with classes (I hope!), just used as miscellaneous debris. 8.) The strange ship seen vertically with what seems to be 3 nacelles could be a Niagara or Rigel class, commonly described as having 3 nacelles, or the Chekov (with the nacelle above the hull, and some other ship's nacelle floating alongside) or maybe a strange 4-nacelle ship with a nacelle above, below, and one to each side!). I'm betting on Rigel class, given the Galaxy-based saucer and engine configuration. -OK, I'll shut up now - just my 30 cents on the topic - if you're confused, I'm not surprised, I confused MYSELF a couple times .
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- just my 30 cents on the topic - if you're confused, I'm not surprised, I confused MYSELF a couple times 
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