quote:there was also a rumor going around that they were originally supposed to be referred to as the Kzinti, a race from TAS, but possibly for legal reasons it didn't turn out that way. I don't know the source of this rumor or if it is even valid.
Well, as "Tzenkethi" is almost an anagram of "The Kzinti", I think that rumour is true.
quote:I for one would think it would be cool to use them straight up as Kzinti in Trek
At least their homeplanet Kzin was used on the starmap in TNG Conspiracy.
True, though only those lucky enough to chance across a copy of the map online know that
Registered: Mar 2002
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quote: Originally he was supposed to be Nick Lacarno.)
You sure about that? Because most "origin of Voyager" tales usually say that the casting powers that be liked MacNeil, but didn't want him to be Locarno again.
Yeah, and royalties is WHY they didn't want him to be Locarno again. Even MacNeil has said that the character was supposed to be the same one.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
That simply doesn't make any sense. Sure, it could be true, but it doesn't make any sense. You don't own what you write when you write for a TV show. Your powerful overlords do. If this were true, you could never do an episode refering to a previous one without cutting an extra check. Does Maurice Hurley get extra residuals everytime "Regeneration" is shown? I very much doubt it. If "The First Duty" can't be refered to, then half the Klingon backstory (written largely by Ron Moore as well) is out.
So, while it's certainly possible that there was some sort of special contract for "The First Duty," or TNG had some unique practices at the time, it seems to me that that episode, like every other except Niven's, was more likely simple work-for-hire.
(Come to think of it, another recurring character created by Maurice Hurley, and oddly enough too, considering the season in which she appeared, was Leah Brahms.)
But now I am all curious. So perhaps some web-mining will turn something up.
quote:Did you get the role of Tom Paris based solely upon your performance as Nick Locarno in "The First Duty"?
As a matter of fact, the producers flat-out said to me that they created Tom Paris based on Nick Locarno in a lot of ways. But I think they were inspired to have that sort of character -- a rogue, very independent, kind of adventurous pilot.
Which is the only thing on the web that I can find relating to the subject.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I don't claim to know all the legal whys and wherefores about the situation, all I know is what has been said by several different people in different places who were close to the production at the time.
I also just enough to know that contracts other than "all rights" ones generally provide for payments when a contracted property is used in other settings within the scope of the contract. (Again, I don't know all the technical legalese behind this, I'm just trying to get the concept across).
In short, Niven gets paid if Kzinti show up in Trek, and the creators of Locarno would get paid if he showed up in Voyager (or any other Trek).
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
So the Gene Roddenberry estate got paid when Riker showed up in Voyager?
What I heard reguarding the Paris/Lucarno thing was that they "wanted a Nick Lucarno type character" "who played him?" "Robert Duncan McNeil" - they auditioned people and then just went "why don't we just get Rober Duncan McNeil?" - pretty sloppy if you ask me.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Larry Niven gets treated a bit differently than Joe Screenwriter.
Again, it's not impossible that TNG was running under something different than the work for hire system, but that would surprise me.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: So the Gene Roddenberry estate got paid when Riker showed up in Voyager?
Exactly! Or like when Q has shown up on both DS9 and VOY?
The thing w/Larry Niven and the Kzinti is a completely different animal, tho. I've never read his works w/the Kzinti in it, but my understanding is that he had published them as a race before Star Trek came out. His Kzinit had nothing to do with Star Trek or Paramount/Viacom, being a completely independent work from same. Larry Niven worked out some sort of "Handshake" deal w/GR to show them in TAS, tho I don't know the details. However, no paperwork was apparently signed or it was a "one time good deal" arrangement - something along those lines.
Anyhow, they can't appear as a named species in Trek because of something to do w/Niven's publishers and their army of lawyers w/o Paramount/Viacom handing over a large check, even tho Niven would be delighted for their appearance to occur. While Q - and presumably Nick Locarno - would be trademarked to Paramount/Viacom, the Kzinti were never their property to begin with.
Anyhow, I'm confused by how the Locarno character would have cost Paramount more money. You'd think that if there was some sort of copyright involved, that McNeil wouldn't be able to play a character almost exactly like him.
No, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to recreate the character of Locarno since I seem to recall he was kicked out of StarFleet Academy. Would have been a very convoluted backstory on how he got back in, only to be punted again for doing more Bad Stuff and then was needed to get into the Bad Lands....
Registered: Apr 2003
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The Kzin are not going to be shown on Trek. (not officially anyway)
Nick Locerno is not Tom Paris. (although he probably wishes he was)
Giant sentient cat-men in pink jumpsuits are a bad idea.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think "TTzenkethi" are the closest were going to get them to say "The Kzinti"
T H E K Z I N T I
T H E K Z I N T e
one letter missing in the anagram - I think that's a pretty good match.
And as I said the Kzin might have various names like Humans/Terrans/Earthers, Vulcans/Vulcanians/Pointed-eared, green-blooded, son-of-bitches Bajora/Bajorans/(Bajarans as Picard says at one point in "Ensign Ro" , Tamarians/Children of Tama,
ALSO we know that the DS9 people have put a few TAS references through the series...
Kor's D5, Berengaria mentioned by Kai Winn, The Shir'Kar SP?
There are probably others - but I haven't seen much TAS.
ALSO they did two episodes which did things that Gene considered too... far out to make TAS canon...
1. Shrinking people... see "One Little Ship" 2. I've actually forgotten what this one was! I have mentioned it here before - or maybe a TAS expert knows what it was. Maybe it was a Voyager episode that did it - I think it was
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
On their rating scale from 1-10 the sole Kzinti appearance is a ZERO.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:No, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't want to recreate the character of Locarno since I seem to recall he was kicked out of StarFleet Academy. Would have been a very convoluted backstory on how he got back in, only to be punted again for doing more Bad Stuff and then was needed to get into the Bad Lands....
Why? If they did carry over Lacarno, why do you assume they would've done the backstory they did with Paris? Wouldn't it be much simpler to say, "Yeah, Lacarno, kicked out, hung around, rebel without a cause - found a cause in the Maquis. Bada-bang, bada-bing."
quote:Originally posted by Griffworks: Yer sounding like an annoyingly broken record or CD that won't stop skipping, Jason - or jock itch....
We get that you don't like cat-men and that you don't like monkey movies. Got it. Won't likely EVER FORGET IT.....
A REAL BAD idea, Jeff. Real bad.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Bajora/Bajorans/(Bajarans as Picard says at one point in "Ensign Ro" ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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