posted
On the other hand, Tim's just done the same thing, but from the other side.
It's bad to say "it's easy to know what to do because God will tell you."
It's also bad to say "It's fine if you want to completly delude yourself and believe in God. Personally, I think that anyone who does is an idiot who ignores all evidence to the contrary, but do what you want."
DON'T ram your beliefs down other peoples throats.
DO repect others beliefs. Calling people who believe in something "devoid of rational thought" is not respect.
------------------ "Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
posted
Unless, you're an alien from planet Irrational. Then, being called Irrational, is similar to us being called Humans by some other species.
Is 'Cauli' in Cauliflower similar in origin to the 'colli' in Broccoli?
------------------ "What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad." - Dave Barry
posted
Well, ya know, there IS evidence. You're just unwilling to see it. Or rather, you can't SEE it. But hey, I can only ram things down your throat when YOU think I'm doing it.
------------------ "Poetic souls delight in prose insane." --Lord Byron
posted
Why am I the one stuck with arguing this? This is a more important argument that guns and all that crap, and it actually applies to a lot of us.
"Well, ya know, there IS evidence. You're just unwilling to see it. Or rather, you can't SEE it. But hey, I can only ram things down your throat when YOU think I'm doing it."
You know, Omega has said things like that. And First could make a similar comment. Or Bryce. In fact, most people here could say that, about evolution, creationism, guns causing crime, guns stopping crime, God, the Goddess, Wicca's, the awful new voices in DragonBall Z. And in all those cases, several people have stood up and argued that they don't agree. This isn't a one sided thing against you. It happens to everyone. You are basically saying that your beliefs are right, and that everyone else's is wrong. What exactly do you expect? Are you honestly saying that the evidence that supports your beliefs is 100% positively true, and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong?
------------------ "Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
[This message has been edited by PsyLiam (edited August 28, 2000).]
Take atheism. Atheists believe that there are no gods. Therefore, they believe that the evidence that supports their beliefs is 100% positively true, and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong.
Of course, anyone that believes that the evidence proves that there is no god is a looney...
Tolerance is not saying, "Hey, maybe EVERYONE's right." Tolerance is not beating someone up because they don't agree with you.
------------------ "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
>>Therefore, they believe that the evidence that supports their beliefs is 100% positively true...
As do people who worship Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mike Tyson. You can't not have faith without believing in your evidence.
You can't sit on the fence, and say "yeah, well, okay God exists, exept when it comes to Adam & Eve, because then..."
That just doesn't work.
>>and that all the other beliefs and religions in the world are wrong.
And how does any other organized religion in the world differ from this? Christians believe that Judaism is 'wrong', right? For they have no Jesus. Am I correct?
I think 'Brand X' is the best detergent. This is my belief. I think all evidence points towards 'yes', else how could I think otherwise? If you say that it is not, I will think you're wrong, but I probably won't go and say "Yes, it's the best detergent. I know this, and you know this. If you don't think this, it's because you're too stubborn to think otherwise."
We are all allowed to use our own detergent, and not be harrased for using our favorite kind.
The issue here is not wether or not one believes in his/her/its to the extent that everything else is 'wrong', because given the nature of our decision making, we all do this.
The issue is wether or not one should go about spewing his/her/its belief system as a fact and forcing it on those who don't share them.
quote:Well, ya know, there IS evidence. You're just unwilling to see it. Or rather, you can't SEE it. But hey, I can only ram things down your throat when YOU think I'm doing it.
I'm unwilling to see it, am I? Why am I unwilling, because I don't believe in it? If I did, I'm sure I'd be enlightened, I suppose?
I Can't/Won't/am Unwilling to see the 'FACTS' only because you and I don't share the same belief system.
I could, if I wanted to, go on & on & on about my faith, and when countered with opposition say that the reason that my opposition doesn't agree is because they're 'unwilling' to see the "TRUTH". Instead, I just keep it to myself, because A) I don't care wether or not you share the same ideologies as I, and B) I respect your right to value your own ideals.
So I won't go and force feed you my way , so I see absolutely no need for you to do it to me.
------------------ "What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad." - Dave Barry
posted
No matter what beliefs you can up with, there's almost certainly going to be more reasonable evidence against it than for it. That's why I don't believe in anything. It's a lot harder, but at least I won't be delusional...
------------------ "It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing." -Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
posted
And now religion. Ah the giant, unending headache that this is. No one ever agrees but it's always fun to debate or better yet, watch.
My opinion is: Live life in the here and now. If you die tommorrow, don't die after having begun planning your next 2 weeks of activities. Not that you shouldn't do as your religion teaches. Let whatever afterlife/non-afterlife/alien probes happen to you. Not like you can go "Wait, I've changed my mind, let me live again and redo that!" unless you believe in reincarnation of course.
------------------ Where's the bathroom on this ship?
posted
There is no CONCLUSIVE evidence of life after death. By this, I mean that the testimony of the SINGLE supposed eyewitness, the only person allegedly to have come back AFTER being dead, is given to us entirely through hearsay, and has never been duplicated, and as such is in the realm of faith, not fact.
However, there is also no CONCLUSIVE evidence AGAINST it.
Soon enough, you will KNOW. Probably sooner than you'd like, but you'll KNOW. So why fret about it now?
That's enough.
I've aleady made the opposition's case against 'God As Advertised,' as I recall. If you want to start THAT again... start a new thread.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
"That's why I don't believe in anything. It's a lot harder, but at least I won't be delusional..."
You are basically saying that anyone who has a faith is delusional. That is just as bad as Tora saying "There is evidence, you jsut refuse to see it", or Bryce saying "Don't worry. You'll soon all be judged."
Fair enough, you don't believe in anything, but try not to put down everyone else while you're (not) doing it.
------------------ "Why do you want to spend time with a deer? They're so stupid, they get hypnotized by headlights!" - Guido Anchovy
posted
Well, see, I don't respect other people's beliefs. I respect their right to hold those beliefs, if they want, but not the beliefs themselves. :-)
First: The one person alleged to have died and come back? I can think of three offhand from the Christian gospels alone. I don't doubt that there have been quite a few other people alledged to have died and come back over the years, too...
------------------ "It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing." -Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
posted
You have a point. I'd forgotten Lazarus and that little girl JC's supposed to have brought back. Still, that's all part of the same story arc.
There is also some truth to the supposition that everyone has faith, to some extent. I have faith in my senses, and that my mind continues to process information as it should. EVERYBODY has to make THAT assumption about themselves, because without it, everything beyond that falls apart. (This is 'cogito ergo sum'.)
Any 'faith' beyond that, however, is sheer speculation, and will remain so, no matter how long the 'faithful' scrunch up their eyes, clap their hands over their ears, and scream "IS SO! IS SO!".
That said, I will be the first to admit, I DO speculate. But at least _I_ know it is speculation, based on little more than my desire for life to 'mean something' and 'be fair.' It's a comfortable conceit, but that's all.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited August 29, 2000).]
------------------ "What happens if a big asteroid hits the Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad." - Dave Barry
posted
First: Exactly. If speculation is your idea of a good time, feel free. But, when people start accepting their speculations as the "Truth", to the exclusion of all else, they're fooling themselves. Worst of all, they try to fool others, too.
Personally, I fail to understand how someone can take solace in such beliefs. I could never make something up like that, and take comfort in the "knowledge" that it's true. Mainly because I don't "know" that it's true. How can one say "Everything will work out because I know 'God' is watching over me."? Bullshit. You can't "know" that anymore than you can "know" what I'm thinking at any given moment (barring any telepathic powers, or my telling you). You might be able to see the look on my face, see how I'm acting, observe other things about me, and come up w/ a theory on what I might be thinking. But you can't know it, and, if you think otherwise, you're wrong. I can't comfort myself w/ "knowledge" that I or other people have invented, and the ability of others to do so demonstrates a fairly limited use of their potential thought power...
------------------ "It's like the Star of David or something. But without the whole Judaism thing." -Frank Gerratana, 17-Aug-2000
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