posted
And since when, Rob, do you have humble opinions?
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
Well, thank God. I don't see anyone being one of those unconvertable Heathens. What? We were creat - no, no, that's Protocols of the Elders of Zion propoganda.
LONG LIVE MARTIN LUTHER!
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
posted
Well, I give up. Omega's once again crossed into a realm of illogic where I refuse to tread. Hell if I'm going to step in that shit on the off-chance that he might actually accept some infinitesimal measure of defeat...
------------------ My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
posted
No, you're not Jewish, Omega, but His son is. And if we're supposed to ignore the OT, why exactly is it in the Bible?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
posted
No, Omega. the "H" wasn't for "Humble." It was for "Honest." Or perhaps, given my inflated self-image and the fact that I believe in myself more than any so-called 'inspired' text, "Holy."
But NEVER "Humble."
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
The OT's there as backstory. Otherwise, The NT'd just be some disembodied tale. Christianity wouldn't have had the effect it did were Jesus' birth not prophecied as it was. The whole Bible is the story following the coming of Christ, and that, with a few exceptions, is what the OT does: it follows the ancestors of Jesus, and prophecy regarding Him.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
The problem with that, of course, is your defense of the 10 Commandments -- namely, "Thou Shalt Not Kill/Murder." Why have you defended it if you're just going to argue that they don't count? As far as I know, God gave 'em down just that once and didn't do so again in the NT, so why not just say, "that commandment doesn't count 'cuz I'm not a Jew?"
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.83 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier ... just as long as I'm the dictator." - George "Dubya" Bush, Dec 18, 2000
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited January 05, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited January 05, 2001).]
posted
"Why have you defended it if you're just going to argue that they don't count?"
'Cause I have a compulsive need to ensure that your specious arguments don't stand.
"God gave 'em down just that once and didn't do so again in the NT"
Read the sermon on the mount. Matthew 5-7.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
"But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire." -Matthew 5:22
Well, looks like I'm going to hell.
"But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -Matthew 5:28
Oops. Going to hell twice.
"Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.' But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil." -Matthew 5:33-38
So, Omega, what are you going to do if you ever use your gun to "prevent a crime" as you always want to, and you get called to be a witness at the trial?
"But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also..." -Matthew 5:39
Oops. Looks like you're not supposed to fight back, w/ your gun or otherwise. Oh well.
"...and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well..." -Matthew 5:40
Hm... I could use a new cloak... Expect to hear from my lawyer...
"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." -Matthew 5:46-48
Hm... Looks like Gentiles are no good. But, wait, what did you say earlier, Omega? "I ain't a jew"? Well, that makes you a Gentile, doesn't it? Tsk, tsk, tsk...
"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." -Matthew 6:1
Hm... No heavenly goodies for Omega, then...
------------------ My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
[This message has been edited by TSN (edited January 05, 2001).]
------------------ Greg: You bought me a urinal cookie? Mike: Not just any ordinary urinal cookie! It has the AOL logo embossed on it! -www.userfriendly.org, 12-08-00
posted
So, Omega, what are you going to do if you ever use your gun to "prevent a crime" as you always want to, and you get called to be a witness at the trial?
Courts have contingincies for this. It's on the Straight Dope website somewheres...
"When a witness refuses to swear to God, the court accepts an "affirmation" instead."
Now the question Cecil was responding to was about atheists, but the same principle would seem to apply. They give the same option to people taking the presidential oath of office, too.
Oops. Looks like you're not supposed to fight back, w/ your gun or otherwise.
"If any one strikes YOU on the right cheek." As I've said countless times, I'd only actually shoot someone if they were immediately about to harm someone ELSE. Were it just my life, I'd take the risk and try to find another solution.
Looks like Gentiles are no good.
In the eyes of those to whom He was speaking, they weren't.
No heavenly goodies for Omega, then...
"IN ORDER TO be seen by them." The command is not to worship in private. It's to avoid doing it specifically to be noticed, which was a common practice of the supposedly devout of the day.
Nice try, though.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
"Jesus's Ancestors? through Mary? Coz he's got NO ancestors through his pa, if you believe that story."
Mary and Joseph were distant cousins. Both of them were decended from David, and almost all of the familial narrative takes place before David's death. Thus, the OT's mainly the story of His ancestory through BOTH his parents.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
posted
True, but since Israel was a matriarchy, feminine lines of descent (through Mary) don't mean much of anything, certainly not to be considered much as regards prophecy.
And since Joseph wasn't Jesus's real father, from a biological standpoint, HIS line of descent wouldn't matter, either.
And, of course, since the bits that link both Mary and Joseph's lineages to David were written long after Jesus's rise to fame, (because before then, who knew?) and cover ages in which geneological records were essentially nonexistent, they could pretty much say whatever they wanted to say, couldn't they? Much as for a while, back a century or two ago, virtually anybody who was anybody in Europe could produce "lineages" back to Charlemagne.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
since Israel was a matriarchy, feminine lines of descent (through Mary) don't mean much of anything
I assume you mean "patriarchy?"
Either way, what's your point? Both His parents (even if only one counts) were decended from David, as prophecied.
the bits that link both Mary and Joseph's lineages to David were written long after Jesus's rise to fame...
Not a problem, due to genealogical records. Mary and Joseph had kids together, and Judaic society was very strict on keeping records of your ancestors. Thus, a good researcher could get the records off of Joseph through his kids, and they could get Mary's through some male member of her family which likely existed.
...and cover ages in which geneological records were essentially nonexistent...
Such as? Even during the exile to Babylon, records were kept. The book of Ezra, chronicaling the return to Jerusalem, makes a big deal about it when someone had lost their ancestoral record. Again, chances are the records would have existed, and thus the people who wrote them down for the gospels would have been able to find them intact.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
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