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'Course it's an approximation. That's why we have footnotes: to point out alternate meanings. If you can point out a section where the meaning could be significantly changed by accepting an alternate translation, that actually fits available evidence, feel free to do so.
Rob:
So you don't accept any individual book of the Bible as historical record? Even though it may have no supernatural elements whatsoever, and is not contradicted by anything? Ezra, for example. Heck, I can probably come up with a dozen other historical documents that you DO accept on nothing but faith. How do you know that THEY're accurate? How 'bout this Apollonius of Tyre guy that you're always going on about? What do you base THAT on?
You accept certain historical documents, while ignoring others. I'd love to know why.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Omega: Where is there a genealogy via Mary presented in the bible? Here's all I can find on Mary's family...
She had a cousin named Elizabeth, descended from Aaron and married to a priest named Zechariah. They had a son John ("the Baptist") who ended up w/ his head on a plate.
She had a sister, who may have been married to a guy named Clopas (the wording of John 19:25 makes it hard to discern whether or not these are separate people).
She had four other sons named James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon, plus some daughters.
I remember also learning that her parents were Joachim and Ann, but that's not in the bible, so I don't know where it came from...
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BTW, I realize I keep using the English versions of the names, even though this thread started as a complaint against such practices. However, I'm only doing it so people understand me. And also because, even though I could find the Hebrew versions of the names, the Aramaic ones would be more correct, and those are a bit more difficult to find...
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Two of the gosepls have two different geneaologies, both leading back to David. One is of Mary, and one is of Joseph. The book I got that particular idea out of (not sure what or where it is, sorry) said which gospel was probably which persons ancestory, based upon the personality of the author and researcher, but I don't recall which was which.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
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Yes, but that's how a Hebrew geneology worked. Typically, you'd list only the males, even if they were only part of the family through marriage.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
posted
So, then, if one of the places where it says "Joseph" is actually supposed to be "Mary", then Mary's father was either Jacob (Matthew 1:16), or Heli (Luke 3:23). So, who's Joachim?
------------------ My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.
posted
I never claimed Apollonius of Tyre was a TRUE story, Omega. There's no more historical documents supporting its veracity than there is that of Jesus. Oh, I accept that the records show that there was some guy named Yeshua who was crucified by the Romans around AD32 for promoting sedition. That's what's in the official historical records, as I understand them. But that's it.
The real evidence for Apollonius is equal in its validity to the official evidence for Jesus: that is, a brief mention in the records of people the Romans killed. The other stuff written about him is as circumstantial and suspect as the New Testament. I use Appollonius simply to show that the Jesus story isn't new, or even original in its content. I don't believe in him any more than in any of those other Gods I mentioned.
I believe the list of executions that the Romans performed because they have no logical reason to lie about those facts, since Christianity was a minor cult of about a dozen true believers (and a lot of followers, but followers don't count early in a religion's creation) at the time, hardly worth notice.
People creating a New religion, however, have every reason to fudge a bit. Like L. Ron Hubbard said, before he followed his own advice and founded Scientology, "The quickest way to make a fortune is to found a new religion."
(Paramount knows this too, now.)
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
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Gah. I wish all these people would stop worshiping me on the streets! There are curry temples for the proper worship of Daryus. Go forth my children, and eat By eating, you worship me.
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Y'know, the more I look into this, the more discrepant it becomes. Do you know Matthew traces Jesus back to Abraham in fewer generations than it take Luke to go back to David?
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posted
The Greek word in question, which is translated "the son of," is more appropriately translated as "the decendant of." The idea for the gospels' geneologies wasn't to trace every frikin' generation back to Adam.
------------------ "Still one thing more fellow-citizens--A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government..." -Thomas Jefferson
By eating, you worship me. 
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