------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
I do love it when I see the same rationalizations and justifications for slavery that the slave owners used themselves so long ago.
Good one. Now we just have to include what Paul wrote in the Bible, and we'll have their religious justification to round out the bunch.
Now, if anyone wants to talk about the practical application of keeping slaves slaves, go read the laws that outlawed teaching slaves to read and write. And then go read about all the social and cultural justification about the uneducated "childlike" status of slaves.
Slavery was not just a circumstance, but a system that kept one people in its place for the service and economic growth of another people. And it is intellectually dishonest to write of slaves a being mere children and therefore bound to their lives as property when the culture and laws prevented them from anything but.
Jefferson was part of that systemic effort.
------------------ I'll kill you, you bloated museum of trechery! ~ C. Montgomery Burns
[This message has been edited by Jay (edited April 23, 2001).]
posted
Sure he did, Omega. He was so determined to end it, he kept 'em himself.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Yes, better him having all the slaves than one who thrashes them! Or if he did thrash them, better him than someone who rapes slave virgin. No, better yet...
posted
Actually, Omega's arguement makes about as much sense as:
"Hi. My name is Bob, and I joined the KKK to stop racism."
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Hm... Is that like "Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity"? *L*
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
"...the concept of slavery itself is not acceptable by any modern standards"
Hmm. You mean "Modern American standards", don't you? Because there are several countries that would disagree with you.
Anyway, I'm not an expert on US history, but Jefferson's time doesn't really count as "modern", does it?
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
Well, to Jefferson it was 'modern' times.....
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
posted
There was a growing sense of anti-semitism in the US back in the thirties and forties, but I'm not going to defend the Holocaust.
Likewise, while a great many of our Founding Fathers owned slaves, people shouldn't make excuses for them. When they do that, they're slapping the faces of all those who died to end slavery, who fought for the civil rights movement. Don't make excuses for the immorality of the men you worship so -- see them as they truly are.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
You do better when you know better. Seeing 'them' as they 'truly' are, apparently means taking our 2001 values, judgements and paradigms and using them to determint wether a person from hundreds of years ago is right, wrong or justifiable.
Of course it's not justifiable. Now. Jefferson and his compatriots in Slavery didn't have the Civil Rights movement, the Emancipotato Proctolimisation, or the Beaumont Freedom writ to enlighten their judgement.
20 years ago, seatbelts weren't used. Or weren't in wide use. If we postulate that 'The people didn't know seatbelts could help you not die, as they were relatively new', are we defending reckless driving?
20 years from now, when we're all impotent from Cell Phones, are people going to say 'Cell Phones weren't, at that time, proven to be hazardous' defending the practice of irradiating sperm?
You can not take what you know now, take somebody who didn't know that then, and condemn them for it.
Noone here has defended slavery. The closest I've seen is someone defending the way Jefferson kept slaves. In 2001, Slaves = Horrible. In 1977, or whenever Jeffermason was President, Slaves = Common. Common <> Right, but 1977 knowledge <> 2001 knowledge.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
But here's the kicker. Jefferson was apparently opposed to slavery ... yet he owned slaves. Even way back in the '70's (the seventeen 70's), I'm pretty sure that's still hypocracy.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 23, 2001).]
posted
Jefferson wasn't president in 1977? Back to the History books for me.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
Was he against slavery, or against the ill treatment of slaves??? Therein would lie the diference....
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
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