posted
JeffK you are obviously not reading what I am saying. I said that neither you or I really know what happend. The suspect could have provoked the officer or the officer may just have fired, we don't know. To provoke this action the suspect could have reached into his pockets or under his shirt. There are many different actions that can make you appear to be going for a weapon. And when it comes right down to it the officer will shoot first. This may seem like a the wrong course to you but that is how they are trained. You swing on an officer he pulls out his nightstick or mace, you pull out a knife he pulls out a gun. That is how they do things.
Also shootings of this nature are almost always investigated no matter what happend, so that is nothing unexpected.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
You're right. They're usually investigated. By the local Police Department, not the Federal Government.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
Mr. Thomas was wanted on a warrant. For not wearing a seat belt and things of that nature.
Mr. Roach tried to arrest him, Mr. Thomas evaded capture. Even though Thomas was unarmed, Mr. Roach decided deadly force was required and shot him.
That's inexcuseable, no matter what.
But the simple fact of the matter, and what I'm contending here, is that when a segment of the population (in this case, African-Americans), feels that they are being discriminated against by another group (in this case, the police department), when sometihng like this happens, why are people surprised when there's a riot? It makes no sense for people to be surprised.
The city of Cinncinatti KNEW it had a race problem, and especially with its police department. They knew the black population was getting quite ... disturbed? ... with the actions of the Cincinatti police department. What did the city of Cincinatti do? Not enough, obviously.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
posted
why are people surprised when there's a riot?
Who's surprised? We're condemning it, not surprised by it.
Mr. Roach tried to arrest him, Mr. Thomas evaded capture. Even though Thomas was unarmed, Mr. Roach decided deadly force was required and shot him.
That's inexcuseable, no matter what.
Not true. He could have physically rushed the police officers. He could have tried to attack a bystander, if any. There ARE excuses for shooting unarmed people, if they are or appear to be threats. Since you don't know whether he was a threat to the officers or any bystanders, you do not know the entirety of the situation, and are therefore in no position to judge the propriety of the police officers' actions.
------------------ "Omega is right." -Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited April 15, 2001).]
posted
Jeff you do not know exactly what happend and you never will, neither will the rest of use. Why? Because we were not there. And I wish that you would stop saying that the officer just shot the suspect.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
Yep. The lack of a weapon does not make one unarmed. One or two punches to the nose can kill. A stiff finger or thumb jab to the throat can kill. A sudden shock to the chest can kill. A twsit of the head can kill. The human body makes a great weapon.
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
posted
Except Mr. Thomas was FLEEING arrest. Not fighting the officer.
Mr. Roach DID shoot the suspect.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
posted
You keep coming back to the point of him fleeing. Your information is coming from the media which is known for not telling the whole story. The suspect began this whole thing by running, but that does not mean that he continued to do so.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
Oh, christ. Stop with the "liberal media!" paranoia bullshit.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
posted
Why don't you stop the "he was fleeing" bullshit. How many different ways/languages do we have to say this? You or the rest of us do not have all the facts.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
Why don't you just accept that he WAS fleeing? Read CNN or something.
Thomas, who was wanted on 14 warrants for misdemeanors and traffic violations, was unarmed when he was shot while running from police. -- Associated Press
Italics are mine.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 15, 2001).]
Liberal media? Who said "liberal"? It's well documented that the media often does not give the full story, for the express purpose of getting better ratings.
Adam Clymer (NY Times, IIRC) wrote a story last year about how allegations of Bush's supposed drug use refused to die, citing a press conference where an unnamed reporter had asked about it. What he didn't tell you was that HE, Clymer, was the reporter. No one else had asked for quite some time.
The Rodney King riots were precipitated by an irresponsible media only giving one side of the story, not showing the multiple times that King had attacked the police officers, and the high-speed chase that ensued.
During the Elian Gonzales kidnapping, a reporter STARTED a riot by throwing rocks, and then proceeded to report on it as if it had spontaneously occured.
Fleeing could be in reference to the state in which he was found when he proceeded to attack the officers. For example, I could be attempting to avoid capture, and thus be fleeing, and yet when confronted, attack my persuers. I could then be said to have been shot while fleeing in quite an appropriate manner.
Yet further, CNN isn't known to be the most reliable news source in existance, nor is the Associated Press. How many times on election night did the media jump the gun on the Florida call? Show me the video tape. THEN you'll have a case.
Examine all possibilities, Jeff. Admitting that you know nothing is the first step towards wisdom.
------------------ "Omega is right." -Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
Paranoia, paranoia ... I'm remembered of a Harvey Danger song. I wonder where I put that CD?
Please explain to me why it is acceptable to SHOOT an unarmed suspect. No one has yet explained this. What, Officer Roach didn't have mace or a nightstick? Look, folks, it is NEVER excuseable to SHOOT an unarmed person. NEVER. Stop spouting off about how the media can't be trusted because they're a bunch of low life liberal biased scum, and explain why it is okay to shoot an UNARMED SUSPECT? It's not like Mr. Thomas had a knife or a gun or a weapon himself. He didn't have any weapon of any type. Please. Explain this. Explain why this isn't lousy police work.
Oh, right, you CAN'T explain it away. Sure, you can argue that Mr. Thomas may have fought with Officer Roach beforehand, but that sure doesn't give ANYONE the right to shoot someone in the back.
And no one has yet responded to my other points. Namely, that the black community feels harrased by police departments. Racial profiling in New Jersey, the shit at LA-PD's RAMPART division. The stuff that had happened in Cincinatti in the past few months -- black youth, killed by police. And then Officer Roach pulls the trigger, and Mr. Thomas dies, and all the suspicion and mistrust and anger overflows and we've got riots. But no one here is willing to talk about this. They'd rather blame the kid for running, and the blacks for burning stuff down and attacking people, and they'd like to call people who don't see the world the way they do "ignorant", or perhaps "left-wing nut." Wow. That really helps the argument.
I most certainly don't see it that way. You hold a group of people down long enough, they're going to explode. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." This country has problems. Please stop trying to excuse or ignore them.
APRIL 23, 2001 VOL. 157 NO. 16 NATION We're All Racial Profilers Sure, cops see black youths as suspect. So do blacks BY JACK E. WHITE
Why do episodes of police violence that touch off conflagrations like the one in Cincinnati all seem so depressingly similar? Let's take a little quiz: a black a) homeless woman b) street vendor or c) teenager, armed with a) a screwdriver b) a wallet or c) nothing at all, is killed by cops under circumstances that are a) questionable b) grounds for murder charges or c) the cause of a riot.
All of the above. Margaret Mitchell, a homeless mentally ill black woman, was shot by Los Angeles patrolmen in 1998 after she allegedly lunged at them with a screwdriver. Amadou Diallo was the African street vendor at whom four of New York's finest fired 41 shots after they supposedly mistook his wallet for a gun. (The officers were acquitted of murder.) And Timothy Thomas was the unarmed Cincinnati youth whose fatal shooting by police ignited last week's uprising.
What these cases--and scores of similar ones across the nation--have in common is that the victims did nothing to justify the use of deadly force. Their real crime seems to have been being black in the presence of a cop. That's why I, like many African-American parents, taught my three sons survival tactics that are the mirror image of the racial profiling used by the police. In our version, every white cop is to be considered dangerous and treated accordingly. In cities like New York and Chicago, some blacks are so scared of cops that they hold classes to teach their kids how not to provoke them.
That means no back talk if a cop pulls you over. Looking straight ahead and keeping your hands on the steering wheel where the officer can see them. Asking permission before you reach for your driver's license. And never, ever running away the way Timothy Thomas did, even if you're completely innocent. It's better to be arrested and spend the night in jail than to catch a bullet fleeing arrest.
As terrible as racial profiling is, it can't be abolished as easily as critics like Al Sharpton seem to think. The sad truth is that racist cops are not the only ones who think that young black men are suspect, especially when they're dressed in a certain way and exude a certain attitude. Black cops believe it. Jesse Jackson--who once confessed that he felt relieved when the young man coming up behind him on a dark street in Washington turned out to be Caucasian--believes it. And so do I. Given the large number of violent crimes committed by young black men, it would be crazy not to.
That's one of the issues Attorney General John Ashcroft will have to deal with as he implements President Bush's order to eliminate racial profiling. The solution may lie in making distinctions between the behavior of average citizens, following our hunches as we walk the mean streets, and the conduct of police officers. It's one thing to cross to the other side of the street out of fear of being mugged. It's another for state troopers in New Jersey to pull over black motorists far more frequently than they pull over white motorists in the mistaken belief that blacks are more likely to be carrying illegal drugs. That's not just racist, it's lousy police work. And it's fuel for the black rage that makes outbursts like the one in Cincinnati inevitable.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** I wouln't say that anyone who has ceased to post every time you rant has "realized that they couldn't win" Omega. It's more like "oh, great he comes Mr. conservative frontal lobotomy boy who only hits one note over and over and over and over..." -Jay, July 15, 2000
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