quote:To get by in US society, reading and writing are very useful skills to have
The President seems to manage just fine...
But back to the topic at hand. I'm studying Rousseau at the moment for my Western Civilization final on Monday, and from what I know about Jefferson, he was very much in adherence to this school of thought. Some of the stuff Rousseau says about the role of women in Emile is, to say the least, quite objectionable, and yet this guy was the leading advocate of emancipation and human rights.
------------------ "I can be creative when I have a good idea. That just happens way too rarely." -Omega, April 6
[This message has been edited by The_Tom (edited April 21, 2001).]
posted
If a hand full of people don't make a difference, look at; 1. The Founding Fathers of America 2. The few bad cops compared to the good ones. 3. The handful of EMS Techs in any city, compared to the population.
Harriet Tubman, George Washington Carter, Martin Luther King, Jr., Rosa Parks..... They made a difference, and they are only four....
How many are in a handful anyway???
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
posted
Reading and writing weren't necessary to do, say, farm work back then. If Jefferson's slaves had left uneducated, they probably still could have gotten jobs doing what they were doing before (except not as slaves).
I think the adult slaves were capable of deciding whether they wanted to leave or not. They may have had the education of children (or less), but they still had the reasoning abilities of an adult. And if a reasoning adult chooses to leave, and someone holds them back, saying it's for their own good, that's still wrong. Sure, maybe they were better off tending Jefferson's land. But that should have been their decision, not his.
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
That's all I gotta say on the matter. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, yet said owning slaves was bad. I'm inclined to call him a hypocrite. Why should I not ... ?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Haha, well thank fuc* for that! It's always good to have a loophole! Now if only we could divert our gazes to the places in the world where slavery still exists!
posted
Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, yet said owning slaves was bad.
No, no, NO. SLAVERY, as a condition, was bad, not the action of owning slaves. Yes, owning slaves could PERPETUATE the condition of slavery if done by one who didn't have the slave's best interest at heart, but that doesn't apply to Jefferson. Yet again, the question is, "What's the best way to free the slave?" A question Jefferson answered correctly with the way he lived.
He had to chose the least among three evils.
1) He could have bought the slaves and kept them ignorant.
2) He could have not bought the slaves at all, thus relegating them and their descendants to perpetual ignorance and slavery through his inaction.
3) He could have bought the slaves, educated them so that they could take care of themselves, and then freed them once they could do so.
Which seems like the best option for the slave? Which did Jefferson do?
------------------ "Omega is right." -Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
posted
No, no, NO. SLAVERY, as a condition, was bad, not the action of owning slaves.
I'm thinking of making this my new sig.
So, slavery is bad, but owning slaves isn't? Someone's going to have to explain this to me. Because, quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone can defend the owning of slaves.
And, er, Omega ... ? It STILL doesn't make Jefferson any less of a hypocrite.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
If Jefferson bought the people from Mr. Slaver, took them home and said, "I have bought you your freedom, but now I'd like you to repay me by working in my fields, but, as an added bonus, I will also teach you to read, write, and do basic math. Now you can't come and go as you please, because the other Mr. Slavers will grab you and sell you to someone that doesn't give a rats ass about you, so you will need to pretend that I am your owner, till you can fend for yourself up North.", would it have been acceptable??
Now, did he tell the 'slaves' what he was doing? If he did then he didn't own 'slaves', but had people working to repay a debt.
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
Why not simply set them free? You can't make slavery acceptable by paying your slaves, whether you pay them in education or money.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
Becuase they'd just be made slaves again by someone else. Unless, of course, they've been taught how to fend for themselves. Obviously, Jeff. Think, for once.
------------------ "Omega is right." -Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
posted
Actually, Omega, once "freed", slaves could not be made slaves again. Not by "law" abiding citizens, at any rate. They (for the most part) were still adults, and had adult reasonings (the "most part", of course, refers to any children Jefferson may have owned, who would not have adult reasoning -- because, well, they're not adults).
Very few people had an "education" at that time, you know. It's not like you heard of a bunch of college students getting mad because John lost the duel and burning their school to the ground. Lack of an education doesn't make an ex-slave unable to "fend for themselves."
In either case, Jefferson is still a hipocrite. And I find the defense of the slave trade -- no matter the reason -- to be racist in its very nature.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 22, 2001).]
posted
Racist? You've taken a whole lot of steps there Jeff.
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
I see slavery as a racist act (especially within this country's history).
Therefore, I see those who defend it as racist.
I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I honestly DO NOT understand how anyone can defend one human being owning another.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
People defend marriage all the time Jeff.....
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
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