Okay, first of all, my original statement has been that riots are inevitable when police deparartments are racist. Deny this all you want, many PDs have a history of racism. Suffice to say, things like this are inevitable.
Second, yes, I've said REPEATEDLY that police must use neccessary force in situations. There's no evidence that Roach needed to use more force. Do you have any? Then shut up. As we know more, we'll learn more. As it stands, it would seem to, well, just about everyone here, that Roach was unjustified. I'm sorry if it's difficult to understand this, but I'm sick and tired of your morons screaming about the same damn thing. Read my posts please.
Gman, I'm going to forgive you for your post about me moving to another country. I'm the one who wants the police to be responsible for their actions, while you seem to be the one who doesn't give a damn what they do. So, why don't you fuckin' move? Now, I don't know if you're an American or not, but if you are, I'm shocked at your ignorance of the basic precept of "free speech" which we so called "worship" in this country. Of course, we also worship individual rights, and you don't seem too keen on that either.
Omega: see, you're contradicting yourself again! Didn't you say that other threads had no context in this one? Thank you very much! Now, look, I'm sorry that you wanna keep telling me that "we don't know what happened you big left wing nut!" But the fact of the matter is, we've got a dammed good idea what happened, and YOU just refuse to accept it, prefering to believe that Mr. Thomas provoked Mr. Roach. Face it: Roach was most likely wrong to fire. Otherwise, please present your evidence.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Psyliam, Excuse me, but who said that he was shot in the back. And my sources for what happens in other countries doesn't come from the tv. I know several people who have lived in both countries for years, some of whom are natives of those countries, and that is how it is done. So before you jump to conclusions, try getting fact.
JeffK, I do care what the police. I whole disagree with police who abuse there power and position. What I am trying to get across is the fact that you want to burn this man at the stake without evidence. Nothing has been set in stone. I'm not going either way on this issue. If he is guilty, then punish him, if he isn't then he will go free. I just want it known that we can't condemn a man without all the facts at hand. As for your comment
Of course, we also worship individual rights, and you don't seem too keen on that either.
What about the Officers individual rights to a fair trial? Now I usually don't take offense to personal attacks and now is no exception. But I would like to know why. I have done nothing to you yet you seem to want to attack me now, saying I don't care about individual rights and free speech. That is way off base and a little rude. If you keep that up it may look as if you are just looking for people to be mad at and to blame for things wrong in this country. As for my comment about moving, I don't want you to move. I just want people to think about how good this country is before they start bad mouthing parts of it. ------------------ Aaahhh Worf, eat any good books lately - Q from Q less
[This message has been edited by Gman (edited April 17, 2001).]
posted
What facts do you bring to the table? You even read the news about what happened?
I admit that we don't know for fact that Thomas made any threating move towards the police.
So, maybe you should stop assuming that he did?
It just seems to me that you want to blame Officer Roach before all the evidence is in. You assume that because the FBI is involved it means that it wasn't justified
Well, of course the FBI is involved because it's an explosive situation. They also have all the evidence. Any officer shooting is investigated, usually by the local IAD, true. The FBI is looking into it because of the Civil Rights violation.
Now, look, you Right-Wing "All Cops Are Angels!" Fanatics. If you've missed where I said that certain responses to certain situations are required, then I'm sorry that yer blind. If you've missed where I said cops have to be held responsible when they use TOO MUCH force, then I'm sorry. If you've missed where I said, "hey, seems like Mr. Roach used a bit too much force, and he needs to go to jail for it." Well, this seems your point of contention, and instead of showing WHY he didn't use too much force, you engage in hypotheticals. Wow. How cool.
Sheeeesh.
GMAN -- edited your post, ya' bastard Now I gotta clarify some stuff.
I don't want to burn Roach at a stake. I WANT him to go on trial. Please show where I didn't say that? When officers break the law, they need to be punished. Trial is one of the ways in which it can be determined if he is guilty of breaking the law. Please don't rush to conclusions.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 17, 2001).]
posted
German cops with those damned sticks, swing once and be pummeled several times....
Stationed there in 1988 to 1990...
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
posted
Okay, let's see now, either you're being lied to, or you happen to be the perfect example of the stereotype of a "dumb american" I've been trying so hard to find. By this I am not saying that all Americans are dumb, or that you are dumb, but there is a certain stereotype about the US that is very popular in other countries, and I beleive your are a perfect example of it.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
So we are morons for trying repeatadly to get our point across to you, and you're not one even though you have been doing the samething.
Excuse me while I laugh my ass off hahahahahahahahaha
There now that I've gotten that out of the way.
Jeff you need to take a serious chill pill cause you have stopped listening to what we are saying. Nobody is saying that the cops are angels and that what ever they do is ok. Also nobody has said that racism doesn't happen in Police departments. We are saying that until all of the facts about the incident come out we cannot determine if Roach used excessive force or not. He may have then again he may not have. Also you say that we should stop assuming that Thomas made an agressive move, then you need to stop assuming that he didn't. We are not saying that he did, we are saying that that is one possibility.
You are the only one basing your argument on hypotheticals. We are say "Hey lets think about this for a second instead of jumping to a conclusion."
You can say that "Roach shot a fleeing suspect" as many times as you like, it just doesn't make it true. If it turns out that it did happen that way then Roach needs to be punished.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
Infinity, so you know he has been lied to how.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
posted
Well of course, he needs to be punished, wow. King of the obvious answeres, ain't you? Bet you even knew the sun was yellow!
Are you forgetting your earlier post that the cops need "to win at any cost!" That sounded more like a defense of the shooting then a "let's wait and see" attitude you adopted later ...
Have you read ANY of my posts? I guess not.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 17, 2001).]
posted
I think he ment that in a confrontation the police need to win, and using excessive/dealy force when not needed makes the cop a danger for society and needs to be taken care of.
------------------ "One's ethics are determined by what we do when no one is looking" Nugget Star Trek: Gamma Quadrant Star Trek: Legacy Read them, rate them, got money, film them
"...and I remain on the far side of crazy, I remain the mortal enemy of man, no hundred dollar cure will save me..." WoV
posted
Wow and you must be the king sarcasm. I've read your posts the questions I have are A)Have you read mine B)If you did read them, do you even care
It seems to me that you are now just lashing out at everyone and everything. I don't know why you are doing this but it has become very old. I also don't understand why it is that you refuse to see the different possibilities that exist in this incident. You have turned everything any of us have posted into something completely different. Yes I did say that an officer needs to win the situation, why do you feel that I mean he needs to shoot. My whole point the entire time has been to nut judge until we know all the facts. You have not gathered this yet so I'm under the impression that you won't. We have choosen to see your point of view but you refuse to see ours.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
I did read your posts. Including the one where you said that a fleeing suspect deserved what he got because "the cop needs to win."
I do understand what you're saying. Have you not read my posts? BUT, when an officer uses excessive force, they NEED to be punished. How difficult a concept is this?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
I did not say that he deserved what he got. I was giving you a reason as to why an officer will have his weapon drawn when chasing a suspect.
Yes I have been reading your posts, how many times do I have to say that if he was wrong in shooting Thomas he needs to be punished. He being wrong means that he did it on purpose cause he is a racist or that he used excessive force for some reason.
------------------ God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.
He being wrong means that he did it on purpose cause he is a racist or that he used excessive force for some reason.
Mind clarifying that, because, honestly, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Ok JeffK I will try to talk about this idea that the black community feels harassed by the police. This is a very tough question. I would have to say that yes the black community is being harassed in places by police. However, I don't feel that this happens, for the most part, because of any racial hatred. I know that there are racist cops out there and that is a problem that will not go away. What I don't agree with is the way the black community reacts to this pressure. Riots and beatings are not acceptable forms of outcry. They need to deal with this in a better way. There are many minority groups out there that don't riot when they are harassed or seem to be oppressed. I think a good example of this is actually the police. The police in itself is a minority group. Every day police are yelled at, spit at, threatened verbally, some are shot, some are beat and assaulted, yet they don't go running into the streets burning buildings and beating every person that looks like a criminal. You have to admit that police take the same kinds of abuse that the black community accuses them of. I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if they are harassed there are ways to deal with it. I'm not saying "buck up" and "have a stiff upper lip" they shouldn't have to, but they aren't alone in this idea of harassment. If they really want to change what is going on, maybe they should look at how their community treats the police and accept that this problem is a two way street.
------------------ Aaahhh Worf, eat any good books lately - Q from Q less
Now I gotta clarify some stuff.
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