quote: Imagine a crossroads where four competing auto dealerships are situated. One of them (Microsoft) is much, much bigger than the others. It started out years ago selling three-speed bicycles (MS-DOS); these were not perfect, but they worked, and when they broke you could easily fix them.
There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery.
The big dealership responded by rushing a moped upgrade kit (the original Windows) onto the market. This was a Rube Goldberg contraption that, when bolted onto a three-speed bicycle, enabled it to keep up, just barely, with Apple-cars. The users had to wear goggles and were always picking bugs out of their teeth while Apple owners sped along in hermetically sealed comfort, sneering out the windows. But the Micro-mopeds were cheap, and easy to fix compared with the Apple-cars, and their market share waxed.
Eventually the big dealership came out with a full-fledged car: a colossal station wagon (Windows 95). It had all the aesthetic appeal of a Soviet worker housing block, it leaked oil and blew gaskets, and it was an enormous success. A little later, they also came out with a hulking off-road vehicle intended for industrial users (Windows NT) which was no more beautiful than the station wagon, and only a little more reliable.
posted
one, macs are slow. did you read the articles i linked? obviously not. a 2.53 gigahertz P4 system was up to 40% faster than a dual gHz g4 system. the pentium4 was designed to clock high, that's why it has a long pipeline design. clockspeed is a totally accurate description of a processor if you are talking about the clockspeed of a processor. the g4 has a short pipeline, thus it performs more operations per clockcycle than a pentium4. obviously, this design hasn't worked out in the end, since a single top of the line p4 is up to 40% faster than a dual top of the line g4 system. the proper way to judge a cpu is total performance and then performance per dollar. the pentium4 obviously wins in both. it also happens to run at high clock speeds. i'm sorry you aren't knowledgable enough to see past that.
apples are certainly not the "mercedes" of computers. what are you paying for? you don't even get a 2 button mouse. nice features. out of date ram, expensive video cards, bad keyboards. you don't even get a decent speaker system. real fucking nice. go configure a pc at dell and a mac. look at the total prices and the features. you will see that the dell offers better stuff for less. keep in mind that in most applications, the dell system is going to be a lot faster. i'm running an advance copy of 10.2, and it has been pretty decent. 10.1 sucked, as did 10.0. it has taken apple a long time to bring out a halfway decent version of this operating system. it still doesn't run well on a top of the line apple system though, which speaks volumes about the apple platform. ms also took a long time for the 9x systems to become half way decnet (they never became decent), but the NT platform hasn't had anywhere near as many problems as os x has.
quote: I try to tell you of my experiences, and you retort with arguments that "Macs suck" and other crap.
you're a jackass. i did indeed say macs suck, and i firmly believe that they do in their current incarnation. i also gave my reasons for saying that. did you forget to read all of those? you people have very selective reading habits and memory. you say i gave you crap. are benchmarks crap? are price to performance ratios crap? how long have you been using apples? i've been using them for a long freaking time. i have a lot of experience with them. the current versions are, compared to the current competition, a lot worse than the apples of 1993 were to the then current competition. if my experiences counts as crap to you, then your's is a lot worse, considering that you haven't written anything worthwhile. if you don't type anything worth reading, them i'm not even going to respond.
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
we've all read that, Sol System (it's a great book, by the way), but that is way out of date now. using win95 and macs from 4 years ago is in no way comparable to the current situation. and please don't quote anything that talks about dos. dos hasn't been the basis of anything since win2k. i don't even think my current system is dos compatible.
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Dude, you're getting a lifetime of repressed anger metamorphosized by pressures of brand identification and erupting in geek form!
Steve told me this thread would work better here.
Registered: Mar 1999
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
read what i said. there is no brand identification for me. whatever is faster and cheaper and better quantitatively is what i use. i have used macs, and i may use macs in the future. i'm just sick of irrational mac support that is being based on nothing. and i'm sick of being badmouthed by those same people for holding equally strong opinions, even though my opinions are backed by fact and experience.
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posted
Ok, I'm going to say why I am a Windows user since people here are screaming about processor speeds: computer games. Windows based PC's have larger game selections than Mac. I'm an avid computer gamer, which is why I just bought the Area 51-m, and I want the lastest games on my lap ASAP. From what I notice, the games first come out in Windows, then a few months later on Mac. Some games like Warcraft 3 are a hybrid but then again I don't really see that occur often. I was just at the Apple store near me and noticed that the Mac version of The Sims: Hot Date expansion pack just came out while Windows has Vacation and soon Unleashed. For me, I'm staying on Windows... besides, someone has to pay for Bill Gate's singing lessons.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
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"Edipis, you keep complaining that Macs are 'overpriced.' That's bullshit. Cheap pricing is certainly why Honda and Ford sell so many relatively inexpensive cars... or you can buy a Mercedes or BMW."
So, what you're saying is that Macs aren't overpriced, but you're comparing them to overpriced cars?
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
That could work... if Macs were the computer equivalent of said (top-notch) German automobile manufacturers in terms of quality, performance, reliability, comfort, and service. Which they aren't by a long shot.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote: dos hasn't been the basis of anything since win2k. i don't even think my current system is dos compatible.
Which is all well and good. It is. It's super for you and people running 2000 and XP. But just how many people do you think are?
You're saying that PCs are better than Macs and vice-versa based on brand new operating systems and 9 gig processors. It might shock you, but the majority are still moving along with Windows 98 and sub 1 gig CPUs. You're comparing new iterations of chips that 99% of people don't even own. That's not a fair assessment of two computing platforms. Compare what people have, now.
quote: you should say "fewer guns", not "less guns".
If you do that again, I will kill you.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
MacOS 10.x and Win 2K have been around for nearly two years. I wouldn't call either of them "brand new".
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
First off, there is no such thing as "overpriced." I've studied some microeconomics, and it my professor frequently pointed out that for any given market price, a certain amount of consumers are going to be willing to purchase the product. And if a consumer is willing to pay the price, then how can they complain that it costs too much? Of course anyone would love to have a lower price and keep more of their money, but if they decide to pay, then there's no excuse.
Edipis, if you think Macs are overpriced, fine. I don't give a damn. I also didn't read a single word of your ultra-long rant that was probably nothing but regurgitated arguments about why Windows machines are so much faster. I don't buy it. For some reason, you've made it your mission in this thread to prove once and for all that your own computer purchase was justified, and that you've got the kewlest machine. Like I said, I don't care.
I'm happy with my machine, and so are millions of other computer users. If you have certain reasons for preferring Windows, that's fine. But don't try to trash my computer preference in the process of supporting yours.
I will not be responding to another one of your messages, Edipis.
~~~~~
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: There was a competing bicycle dealership next door (Apple) that one day began selling motorized vehicles--expensive but attractively styled cars with their innards hermetically sealed, so that how they worked was something of a mystery.
That may have been true before, Sol. But there are several points that make that a false statement now:
Mac OS X now is based on a UNIX core -- an open source system. Moreover, there are plenty of software developer kits (SDK) that allow all sorts of new programs to be created. Take a look at a site like VersionTracker which lists all sorts of applications and additions that are available for the system. And remember that this system is only about two years old. And yet there are all sorts of programs cropping up, even those that are programmed in the "Cocoa" environment, using the OS X language "Objective-C."
Microsoft has tenaciously held on to all sorts of software code -- the *ahem* proprietary software. That's made it all the more difficult for developers to produce some kinds of programs that need to perform specialized functions... because Windows is ALSO "hermetically sealed" and frowns on access. Nobody has a clue how Internet Explorer works, or how Office works, or other programs. Nobody except hackers, that is. And so there are a lot more security problems.
I can't provide a link at the moment, but I read an article which stated that Windows machines account for something like 20% of the internet servers, but report 60% of the security breaches. I'm not going to get into the open source argument here, though. That's a whole different animal.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
os x is not based on unix. that is a commonly held misconception. it is based on freeBSD. MinutiaeMan, you have been brainwashed. if you can't see the faults of apples, then you aren't using any of your higher brain functions. maybe you should read my "rant". it is filled with facts. something you don't have. also, if you truly didn't care about other people's computers, then you wouldn't have made this statement.
quote:That's nothing but an old rumor at this point, Cartman. I've been hearing things like that for almost a year. It's certainly possible, and I wouldn't be that upset -- because the Apples certainly wouldn't be running on the piece-of- shit Pentiums.
And as for the "fact" that megahertz really does matter...
...Windows geeks, eat your hearts out! Your penises are not as big as you think. (I say this with the understanding that 95% of people don't care about getting the "most powerful" machine, of course... )
you're an uninformed hypocrite. the fact that you don't even bother reading what other people write before you respond shows your true colors. i need no justification for my purchases, as i have that internalized. you simply need to grow a brain before you make stupid statements. the fact that you lash out at my character, as opposed to my words, probably shows that you are uncomfortable with your own lack of factual argument and that you are uncomfortable with your own choices. stick to facts, not your own manufactured bullshit.
PsyLiam, i already killed you, so you can't kill me. you just don't know it yet .
PsyLiam you say my argument isn't fair. well, you are full of shit. i don't care what joe fuckwit has in his basement. i compare the high end of both computing platforms. how is that not fair? apple is touting their machines as being superior, when they are not in the vase majority of cases. also, almost all new PC's are being bundled with winXp, and all macs are being bundled with OS X. i don't understand how you say this isn't a valid comparison when i am comparing the 2 most common operating systems among currently sold computers. when you compare car brands, you don't do it by comparing previous car models. why should i do that with computers?
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posted
I'm about this: >< close to switching to Mac. If only for this thread. Like how people choose Aetheism only because they're sick of the preachy fundies.
Registered: Oct 1999
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
i chose atheism because i don't believe in a god. and i'm assuming that i'm the one being compared to a fundamentalist, right? despite the fact that i'm the one who supports my facts, has tried the other platform, is knowledgable about both sides and welcomes intelligent informed arguments. i'm being called the fundamentalist despite the fact that the other person attacks my character, calls my opinion worthless, and backs up none of his claims with anything resembling fact. in fact, that other person just ignores my posts because he automatically decides that what i'm saying is meaningless simply for the fact that it differs from his opinion. yet i'm the fudamentalist, right? am i right about that? because if i am, then you people need to get your heads out of your asses.
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posted
The amusing thing here is that you've somehow convinced yourself that people are indeed reading what you've written, or at least care about what you have. If I had been a passenger on the Hindenberg, and had my limbs burnt off, I could still count the number of people you've managed to convince that your views are superior, and will jump from the Apple Base to the PC Base, on my one non-existant hand. Just like the Omega/First of Two/JeffreyB debates in the Flameboard in the days of yesteryear, nothing has been changed, nothing settled. Perhaps this is due to the throwing up of the "Dont' go there girlfriend" hand, the whole "I don't give a fuck what you say, I'm right" stance. You may have "Facts" and "Experience" but you sure as hell make it difficult to want to listen to you. If you don't listen to others, why should they listen to you? I'm not exactly sure I know. If Apple were indeed the carcinogenic, sterilizing, baby-killer and lynch mob organizer you say it is, there'd be nobody using it. Either every single one of the millions of Mac users is completely stupid, which ccould be the case, (They do have computers colored pink), or there is something about them that is a viable alternative to whatever else exists out there.
But, whatever. PCs rule, MAC users are nearly as dumb as Klan members using useless pieces of shit, so hooray for discussion. I bow in deference to your "Facts" and "Evidence" and your superiority in general.
Registered: Oct 1999
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