posted
Of course, over the following years, we've found out what the other five GCS ships were that supposedly were in commission at this time.
Galaxy is still in service, Yamato was destroyed already, Odyssey would be destroyed later, Venture is still in service, and Trinculo (if it was ever on DS9) is still in service. Even if we include Challenger, she would still be in service (or would be commissioned at a later time). None of these ships would have served as Hanson's command at Wolf 359.
I think Hanson came to Jouret on the Melbourne in command. Picard was kidnapped, Riker given the Enterprise, the Melbourne's XO given CO status with Hanson still aboard in the Aux Command Center coordinating at Wolf 359. The Melbourne's saucer is almost completely blown off. It stops short of the bridge, but the explosion damages it. Hanson takes over, but another hit off screen takes out the ACC as well.
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posted
Anyone have, or can get a screen of Hanson's shot from his "Battle bridge"? We should be able to identify the chair he's sitting in at least. If it's the same as the one used on the BB on the E-D...
And regarding any Galaxies at Wolf 359, I'm of the opinion that at least one would have been under construction at the time, to replace the Yamato (as the space shuttle Endeavor was built to replace the Challenger and thus maintain a fleet of four). Hanson could have been aboard that one. On a book I used to be invoved with-- ah, never mind.
posted
Even if there had been a Yamato replacement under construction at the time, I don't think constuction would have advanced far enough that Hanson could take it out to Wolf and engage in battle (even if it was just the stardrive section).
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posted
I'm not necessarily saying that this ship was the one being constructed from the keel up to replace Yamato - it's possible that the ship was just one of the original six, on the production line closer to being finished (or alternatively just one in the area). At the rate they were launching GCS at the time (six years between Galaxy and Enterprise, which was number three of six), it would be a stretch to say they can build a whole new GCS from existing components in just over eighteen months.
This would make one of Challenger, Odyssey, Venture or Trinculo the *actual* replacement for Yamato.
posted
I'm with Mark on this one. The 'Unseen Frontier' version of events isn't beyond the realams of possibility. 1) We know that in the Dominion war, battle worthy Galaxys were launched without most of the internal extra crew support and science modules installed.
2) The intention of the author clearly didn't involve the Melborne being seen before the graveyard scene, nor was it supposed to be Hanson's flagship.
3) Hanson was intended to be aboard a Galaxy-Class ship, the battle bridge set supports this.
4) The old red alert graphic is probably there because someone read where the script says; "Hanson's image on screen... he's on a Battle Bridge at Red Alert... " At the time this was the only Red Alert graphic avalible that would fit into the shot since the E-D just used generic red lights. Plus the fact that ST:VI graphic hadn't been made yet. From a Treknical standpoint, if the ship had indeed been rushed out of dock then a full set of software might not have been available or the relatively complex 'Windows: Galaxy' would take too long to install and configure. So they loaded the old 'DOS: Constitution' instead, which while unable to run all the holodecks, count how many dots make up infinity or make Arthur Dent a good cup of tea, it was perfectly able to run the propulsion and tactical systems efficiently.
posted
Just to throw another complication into this...
One could also argue that since all twelve original frames for the GCS's were constructed at the same time, and it was just that six of them were completed originally, then all twelve hulls were given registry numbers around the same time. I think it would be reasonable to assume that the disassembled space frames would've been given registry numbers for tracking/organization purposes.
Using this line of reasoning, that means that any of the later ships could've been built in any order.
All that really rules out, ultimately, is the assumption that the Challenger or the Trinculo are among the original six ships.
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posted
Well going by the TNG tech manual, it suggests that Starfleet was pumping out GCS one every year. Galaxy was launched in 2356 and Enterprise in 2358. We can say Yamato was 2357. That would mean the 6th GCS would gave been launched in 2361, 2-3 years before Enterprise was commissioned. It looks like the tech manual suggests 5-6 years physical construction time for the early GCS. Assuming a new one was ordered right after the loss of Yamato, she would only be 25 to 30 percent complete, which places her at the level of frame construction and major hardware installation, initial hull layer attachment, warp core being around 2/3 complete, impluse engine installation complete, computer cores half complete, beginning phaser bank installations, initial habitat module installations, and power and consummables conduits installation. If construction time was halved the level would be at contunued frame and hull construction, fuel tanks and pods integration, impule engine test powerups, RCS thruster assembies installation, computer core installation, phaser power flow conduits and regulators installation, and work on main deflector dish. Still would not be adequate for emergency launch even if construction was halted on the saucer in favor of the stardrive. There just wasn't enough warning time to switch over from that to get the stardrive ready.
Assuming, the new replacement used one of the frames from the other six, the framework still had to be re-assembled. And Starfleet was still on a "peaceful" mindset, so they would not be pumping out ships like that had during wartime... they would be constructing ships to completion before launch, not to the point of initial space-worthiness and operational status.
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posted
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: I guess that just leaves the question of what practical joker in the ship's Engineering department programmed one of the computer panels to display an old-style alert visual.
that visual could still have been in use on 24th century starships too... (especially if it was the battle bridge of an Excelsior-class ship )
i know the script says a Galaxy, it might take us a while to get used to the idea however
this brings a possibility.. perhaps the saucer of Hansen's GCS escaped destruction, and was orphaned? what would Starfleet do with an orphaned Galaxy saucer? it might shave a few years off the construction time of the next GCS (i also must point out that by 2364 when the GCSs were entering full service rotation, Nebulas should have been prevalent too, leading me to believe that starfleet might not have taken as long to build new series, since the made many many more GCS shaped saucers)
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posted
I'm of the mindset that the bit in TNGTM about the '6 initial ships followed up by 6 more spaceframes' was: 1. Just 'down payment' for the Galaxy Project, Starfleet has thousands of ships, building only 6 operational ships of a single class whose design purpose is intensive use is just silly and pointless 2. A decision that was changed after the TNGTM was printed, and Starfleet neglicated to issue to new version of the TM, instead only updating the electronic version, available in PADD-friendly formate to save paper 3. Part of Starfleet's ongoing disinformation program intended to confuse Threat Forces, "These are not the Galaxies you are looking for"
In all seriousness, I don't think even Starfleet could have pumped out enough Galaxies in the short period before the official start of the Dominion War to form "Galaxy wings", as a part of a conscious force buildup effort. That would require shipyards to focus on producing too many "too many eggs in one basket".
Thus, Galaxies must have been in a steady rate of production for a while before the conflict to explain their numbers during the war. There really is no reason why Starfleet would stop at so few Galaxies, considering the size and resources of the Fleet, not to mention the amount of time invested to design and research the vessel, plus the great need for a new and superior Explorer-type vessel. It was, IMO, purely a bad call on the part of GR, trying to keep the Galaxy rare and special.
I certainly don't believe anything the DS9TM says about the Galaxies.
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posted
Ahh, the famed "Galaxy wings" problem. I happened to see "Sacrifice of Angels" a few weeks ago, and I've got a potential explanation (that's probably been offered before):
The Galaxy wings were groups of ships of various classes that were centered around a GCS as the de facto "battleship" of the fleet.
Also, since Sisko's fleet was made of ships from the Second, Fifth, and Ninth Fleets. Therefore, when Sisko called for "Galaxy wings nine-one and nine-three," he's calling for the first and third wings that are based around GCS's that are in the Ninth Fleet. Therefore, there would've also been, for example, Galaxy wings two-one and two-two, and wings five-one and five-three, or whatever.
According to that line of reasoning, all that actually says is that there were at least three GCS's in Sisko's fleet. And we know from screencaps that there were more than that. So that makes sense, IMO.
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quote:Also, since Sisko's fleet was made of ships from the Second, Fifth, and Ninth Fleets. Therefore, when Sisko called for "Galaxy wings nine-one and nine-three," he's calling for the first and third wings that are based around GCS's that are in the Ninth Fleet. Therefore, there would've also been, for example, Galaxy wings two-one and two-two, and wings five-one and five-three, or whatever.
The only problem being that Sisko can't be talking about Galaxies from the Ninth Fleet as they wouldn't arrive till a day after the minefield came down and so they went with the Second and Fifth Fleets only.
[ October 14, 2003, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Hunter ]
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: 3) Hanson was intended to be aboard a Galaxy-Class ship, the battle bridge set supports this.
Not to go back on my earlier assertion that Hanson arrived on the Melbourne and that the Melbourne was the Excelsior destroyed first in "Emmisary", but why couldn't the Nebula Class have the same Battle (or better yet Auxilary) Bridge as the Galaxy Class does? Just because it doesn't seperate doesn't mean that it wouldn't have an auxilary bridge. The TOS Enterprise did.
And the fact that two classes share so many common features would suggest that the same or similiar auxilary bridges would be used as well. It's not as important as the main bridge and as such wouldn't get traded out very often like the main bridge does.
Don't some Nebula's predate the Galaxy's judging by registry numbers (I know that's unreliable at best)? Maybe that explains the older style "Red Alert" graphic? It was just the style in use until the Galaxy came along.
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I think the logic establishing that Hanson was on a GCS is a bit thin, but neither do I believe that he was on the ECS that had half its saucer blown off. A ship takes that level of damage, you have to assume it's not long for this world, er, universe. The priority is going to be getting the flag officer to safety (cf. Admiral Hayes, his ship was destroyed), never mind letting him sit in his auxiliary CC coordinating the battle and chatting with ships nowhere near the battle area.
As with Hayes, again as soon as Hanson's ship was destroyed someone else would have taken over, and the less instruction Hanson tried to give before then the better. Without constant updates his directives would soon be out of date and would just confuse the course of the battle. He might order the Yamaguchi to flank, expecting her to be supported by the Roosevelt but unaware, sitting as he is in an escape pod, that the latter ship is currently being assimilated. Which leaves the Yamagushi out on a limb.
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