posted
That is at least the heavy implication. An interstellar trip mere 800 years before the show is considered mythical at best; areas of Bajoran landmass itself remain unexplored after civilization has flourished there for a hundred times longer than it has on Earth; class M moons in the system or even around Bajor itself remain uninhabited.
I'd say the pre-Occupation Bajorans were extreme homebodies, perhaps because the caste system was established after the need for a surface explorer caste had disappeared, but before the means for space exploration had become available. No explorer caste, no exploration. Not for a hundred thousand years. It would take at least an evil alien occupation to shake that sort of tradition.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Doesn't someone make a point of mentioning that the Bajorans didn't have any particular interest in anything offworld prior to the occupation?
*plexes* No, I don't feel that was ever stated, it certainly has been proven that Bajorans traveled to Cardassia and made contact with them first. Bajorans do love nature, thus they have not developed the entire planet, they do not wish it to be one giant city. From TNG - Ensign Ro Picard stated that the Bajorans were refugees without a homeworld, forced to resettle throughout the quadrant. I feel that could probably why some of the moons may have a lower population than normal.
But Bajorans do love nature- that was the why they would often travel to Golana, as it was very green and a great place for picnics.
Registered: Dec 2005
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Well, uh, OK? But it is as Timo says: ancient Bajorans were not particularly interested in exploration or colonization, or so several plot threads contend. And as you yourself say, the Bajorans who fled Bajor did so as refugees, not as part of some colonization strategy, and from what we saw on TV many of them were living rather hard lives. They weren't exactly founding brave new worlds.
(re first season DS9 episode "Progress": Bajor is so uninterested in colonization that they hadn't even gotten around to living on a class M moon in their own system until the Cardassians came, and as soon as the Cardassians leave they're willing to wreck the moon's ecosystem for power generation purposes. ((Although I'd guess they had at least visited long enough to bring along some Bajoran flora and fauna, since kicking out that old man and killing a bunch of plants that exist elsewhere is one thing, but destroying a totally unique biosphere is something else. Or at least it would bother me, and, you'd think, the Federation, who seemed to be doing most of the heavy lifting.)))
Registered: Mar 1999
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I still think that Bajoran space can be smaller - just squash the stars/sytems closer together. I doubt Bajorans would travel tens of light years to have a picnic.
DS9 has to be closer to the Badlands to make it fit in with various aspects of the Marquis Arc...
Also it shouldn't be so close to Federation space. It was WAY closer to Cardassian space. Sisko and Jake travelled at roughly warp 1 for a few days to get to Cardassia in that ancient solar space ship.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
At the risk of overwhelming the thread with this digression, only one of those planets seems to have been definitely colonized prior to the occupation.
The larger issue, I think, is "Bajoran space" as a category. There's no reason to think the Bajoran government had anything to do with those refugee camps, for instance. So, I mean, you've got planets with Bajorans on them, and then you have a smaller number of planets that belong to "Bajor" the political entity, and I would say most if not all of those were either colonized after the occupation or were officially annexed after it.
The setting for DS9 (the show) just doesn't seem to include a Bajor that controls a sizable volume of space. Or anyway, such was my interpretation.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Mabye they dont "control" it, but just have colonies or settlements of mainly Bajorans in that area....it's not as though every part of the galaxy has to fall within the territory of a major power- hell, it makes a lot more sense that there are dozens of autonomus colonies, settlements and stations that engage in commerce with whomever they like and dont have any particular political status or protection.
What was that colony that the Husnok wiped out? They sure did not seem a branch of the Federation (as example only),just as Bajor likely had no political influence over New Bajor.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
That was a Federation colony, though, explicitly as I recall, as in "in the Federation," and New Bajor was, likewise, explicitly a Bajoran colony.
Or, again, so I recall. New Bajor (as described in the above link) was their ill-fated attempt to get some Gamma Quadrant real estate. [Perhaps because all the easily colonizable nearby worlds on this side of the wormhole were long taken.]
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Hmm...I think only the local real estate was long taken. Even stuff in the neighborhood of or in claimed space was often left unvisited for decades at a stretch- like that world ceeded to the Sheliak.
What about all those non-allinged worlds that sem so seedy, but still maintain some diplomatic ties?
Aside, I could see a group of colonies banding together for mutual defense against a major power{s) and their claims of territory -particularly on worlds they are not useing, but only claim as a "we claimed it first so you cant" advantage. It would have t be a close grouping of wor;ds though- mabye a stelar cluster or a trinary system... I get the feeling there was once a cold-war like colonization expansion wherein all the Powers staked a claim to certain territory but rarely developed (or occasionally abandoned) the claimed worlds....like all those untouched planets in the RMZ, or within the Fed itself (Diatalix B, etc.).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Also it shouldn't be so close to Federation space. It was WAY closer to Cardassian space. Sisko and Jake travelled at roughly warp 1 for a few days to get to Cardassia in that ancient solar space ship.
Had to be faster than Warp 1, since that's the speed of light. You're not getting anywhere in the galaxy in a few weeks going Warp 1.
Of course, that entire idea of Warp "rivers" was a bit too much for me.
Perhaps instead of clumped together, Bajoran "space" stretches up and down, or has other spindly "arms" emerging from Bajor toward these settled worlds.
And how many are/were in the Gamma Quadrant? Was the galactic location of all these other planets determined?
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Perhaps I will shrink Bajoran space further... and alter some locations- Perhaps my love of the Bajorans clouded me to some aspects, but I think I do have a lot to debate from.
Kasidy Yates was detained by Klingons in DS9 - Way of the Warrior while on a cargo run, resulting in a distress call to the DS9. The S.S. Xhosa had been at warp for an hour, and the space the Xhosa was in was still declared "Bajoran Space", leading one to think that Bajor has claim to at least some space between it and the colonies.
We have seen some of the governmental structure of Bajoran and the colonies. Bajorans have a pretty simple government, with the First Minister and a Council of Ministers.. the First Minister acts as the President, and the Council as a Congress. The leader of a colony carries the title of "Governor" Which does would imply that the colony serves as a political state within a greater Bajoran government. In DS9 - Heart of Stone Kira and Odo met with Governor Avesta who was leader of Prophets' Landing as it is their closest world to the Cardassian Union. They reviewed their security procedures and then declined the Governor's invitation to dinner.
Another factor for government unity is Bajoran religion, the Kai does not serve to create law, but he or she is a leader of the Bajoran people all the same. The Kai along with the Vedek Assembly mirror the First Minister and Council in form, but of course deal with different matters. There can only be one Kai, just as there can only be one First Minister. The colonies never "break away" and become autonomus this way. This could be why Humans have spread to build the Federation while the Bajorans have not gone nearly as far.
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Umm, all we know is that Kasidy's ship left the station a hour before being stopped. I'd say she did so at impulse.
Runabouts basically never travel at warp while in the Bajoran system, and it takes AT LEAST two hours for them to get from Bajor to DS9; while the Defiant is willing and able to warp out from the level of the Denorios belt, Kasidy's freighter probably isn't.
Given Bajor's limited naval capabilities, I don't think they could have held claim to space beyond the orbit of Bajor XIV at the time of that episode.
posted
The Xhosa departed DS9 (not Bajor) which is located at the end of the Bajoran system, and we've commonly seen vessels of many types depart the station and go to warp.
The Bajorans alone do not have a strong military, they do not have a fleet of ships that can defend their claims- and though they are weak, they are very proven claims none-the-less. Not every species needs an all powerful fleet to protect a territorial claim- they just need a treaty with an all powerful fleet. That was done with the UFP, there was a minor treaty with the Cardassians, they allied with the Dominion, and finally resumed relations with the UFP.
Registered: Dec 2005
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http://www.craigdannenberg.com/bajor/TrekMap.html Updated the first five Delta Quadrant locations Voyager visited, now all I have left is their last location before they came home.
Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:The Xhosa departed DS9 (not Bajor) which is located at the end of the Bajoran system, and we've commonly seen vessels of many types depart the station and go to warp.
Actually, DS9 is located roughly in the middle of the system, in terms of planetary orbits (we even see the relevant Okudagram on screen a couple of times). Departing DS9 is not that much different from departing Earth: if you are in a hurry, you can warp out, but you can also choose to spend a lot of time at impulse, up to the orbit of Saturn at least ("BoBW" et al.).
And we've never really seen a freighter go to warp directly from the station. The only known civilian vessel to attempt this was the small one that got blown up in "Improbable Cause"...
So I still think the heavy implication and the writer intent here was that the Xhosa was still insystem and at sublight when the Klingons intercepted her.
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