posted
I'd only advise Mandel to research www.stdimension.de before nailing down the locations of fictional stars, because that's the best work on the subject to date, unless he's been as involved in map work as Chris.
Otherwise, I'm relatively optimistic about such a book, since the basic model of a small Federation between Rigel, Deneb, and Antares has been accepted by fandom ever since Star Trek Maps, a publication Mandel is likely to take into consideration. The locations of the real stars are easy to determine, while the fictional stars can be located anywhere you like within this radius, because one can't really use warp speeds to prefer one location over another -- they vary too much. Sure, some stars are more likely to be in certain places than others, but there's a great leeway within this basic 1000-ly diameter.
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posted
Um. didnt Mandel (or Drexler) originate that Spock's first name is Xtmprsnfwld? I dont expect him to verify shit.. hell just make up some not-so-likely stuff that will piss us all of. Avoid maps altogether.
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Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:Otherwise, I'm relatively optimistic about such a book, since the basic model of a small Federation between Rigel, Deneb, and Antares has been accepted by fandom ever since Star Trek Maps, a publication Mandel is likely to take into consideration
Well, considering Mandel wrote Star Trek Maps, I imagine so...
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
One reason Mandel's project hasn't attracted much publicity here is 'cause he's been contacting people directly by email. Yes, he's in cahoots with Chris R�hl from stdimension, and that's in fact one of the main sources he's using for the project (the facts and the speculation alike). I just got notification that he's got a beta-version almost ready, and that he might show it around before moving ahead...
It seems Mandel is basically doing a 2D map, with a Z coordinate given next to the star. The big empire borders and neutral zones and whatnot won't intermingle in a complex 3D pattern, then, but will be readable in a classic 2D overhead view.
posted
Is he giving the borders of the 'powers' amoeba like qualities... since at times some can boarder one another, but other can't etc.
I've found another "map"/"neighbour" situation - Watching Q2 [Voy] Which I finally saw last night... good ep - Author, Author was GREAT though.
Anyway - there was the "meeting" that Chakotay set Q's Son... it involved a Nausicaan (with a VERY yellow face) a Bolian, A Cardassian, a Ferengi, a Bajoran and a Romulan involved in a dispute over an asteroid's mining rights. I can't see any 'power' travelling very far for a single asteroid - it would have to be able to be 'connected' some how to the home 'regions' by supply and support. The fact that there were no Klingons there seems interesting.
Clearly Bajor and Cardassia are close together. I've always speculated that Bolarus IX (the Bolians) is nearby to DS9/Cardassia seeing as we've seen quite a number of Bolians serving on DS9 and a few more Bolian civilians than usual. We even had Chell in Voyager - a member of the Maquis (not saying much seeing as we also had klingons and vulcans etc.)
The Ferengi being there doesn't suprise me - they would be at most major deals like this. The Nausicaan said it (the asteroid) used to be in their space (I think) - I was going to suggest that Nausicaa was close by to The Cardassian Union - ahhhhh but Enterprise suggests that they were known even back then. Well before the introduction to the Cardies and the Bajorans. Even before the Romulans. I've got a sneaking suspicion that we might see Bolians - but they at the start of TNG - didn't seem to be a member of the Federation... anyhoo - one would suggest that at least the Bolians and the Nausicaans share a common boarder... that is not near the Romulan Neutral Zone, but is withing in acceptable distances to the Cardassians and the Bajorans... this makes it one big blood mess. Picture those little water-bomb balloons as different 'powers'. the get them all sticky and mix them up and squash them into a ball... this is sort of how I think the space around all these (including Feds, Klingons, Tholians etc) looks. At the same time there has to be neutral space (possibly the space between stars that doesn't connect directly to an adjacent system.) Oh, I'm sure the Tholians, the Klingons and the Romulans are locked in some sort of balancing act - as per "Reunion" [TNG] and "Homefront" [DS9]
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Mojo I have a few questions about Wolf 359 and the Galaxy, I originally tapped it out over at this thread. Anyway, I've cut and pasted the relavent parts of my post!
I think there are some interesting Wolfie questions there - even if I do say so myself. ;o)
BTW, Mojo - this Galaxy that appears... I'm guessing not finished?? (would a Galaxy Class be hanging around sector 001 - Picard did mention in "Conspiracy" that it was highly unusual for a ship like the Enterprise to return to Earth! I'm guessing half built? Major Damage? Anyway - maybe a good effect would be to not have too many lights on... (depending on how deep into battle they are) I can't see these ships having many lights on... especially in the saucer section. I hope we return to the "round" shields (if we see shields) Does your Galaxy model separate!?! Although I don't think that it would have cause Picard/Locutus was fooled by Riker in BOBW part II. What else is there that get usually overlooked in Trek about what these ships would be doing in combat?? Phasers from turrets we never see get used (i.e. the ones on the nacelle pylons on the Mirandas a la STII:TWOK. Photons... have we seen any photons in still pics... could we have a few of those cool "shards of light" torpedoes that we saw in the TOS movies... and again in "Flashback" - I loved them - they looked so much more powerful than the 'blobs' seen in First Contact or the 'blobs with starry bits' seen in TNG.
Something else... did the fleet make MUCH of a dent on the cube? how long did the cube take to regenerate in Q-Who? How long was the time period between The Battle of Wolf 359 and the next time we see the cube (cause we saw no battle damage)
Also someone asked a question in the other 'questions' thread about why did the Excelsior Melbourne destruct/breakup so more quickly than the Saratoga... other than story/drama I would say that maybe the Melbourne had been in battle a lot longer than the Saratoga?
ALSO Did the Melbourne ever get a new Captain!?! Riker was supposed to be the new Captain... but he hadn't exactly REFUSED by the time of Wolf 359 - so did the Melbourne go into battle with out an experienced Captain!?! Infact maybe this was a problem, maybe the mad scramble for ships left many ships that might have been 'mothballed' with skeleton/unexperienced/unqualified/untrained crewmembers!?! Maybe some of the Engineers of UP/McKinley/SanFran/Luna drydocks offered to help to fill positions!?! Maybe Academy students DID serve!?! Maybe only one ship - and maybe only final year cadets and/or "Red Squad". They needed relatively experienced crew... that 'fleet' must have been VERY rag-tag. Andrew
[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: AndrewR ]
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote: What else is there that get usually overlooked in Trek about what these ships would be doing in combat?? Phasers from turrets we never see get used (i.e. the ones on the nacelle pylons on the Mirandas a la STII:TWOK. Photons... have we seen any photons in still pics... could we have a few of those cool "shards of light" torpedoes that we saw in the TOS movies... and again in "Flashback" - I loved them - they looked so much more powerful than the 'blobs' seen in First Contact or the 'blobs with starry bits' seen in TNG.
I'm guessing the blobs are the latest upgrade, and whatever torpedoes they used back then wouldn't even be carried...
quote: Something else... did the fleet make MUCH of a dent on the cube? how long did the cube take to regenerate in Q-Who? How long was the time period between The Battle of Wolf 359 and the next time we see the cube (cause we saw no battle damage)
I'm sure the cube took some damage, and was busy repairing it when it ran into the Enterprise-D for the Locutus abduction thing. We see that the cube had left a trail of ionic breadcrumbs in some direction - why would this be significant if the cube would have just packed it in and continued its beeline towards Earth? And what would cause it anyway? Again, probably battle damage.
It's most likely therefore that the cube had taken significant enough damage to warrant sticking around (or at least leaving the scene at impulse velocity) to fix itself up, finish assmilating people, packaging off a mini-cube full of new drones to the nearest transwarp conduit.. There's lots to explain why it hadn't warped away yet.
quote: Also someone asked a question in the other 'questions' thread about why did the Excelsior Melbourne destruct/breakup so more quickly than the Saratoga... other than story/drama I would say that maybe the Melbourne had been in battle a lot longer than the Saratoga?
That would make sense only if the battle had been going on for a while by then, which I doubt. The intent of the script as written would most likely cement the Sagatoga as part of the first wave of ships... Thus, as I've posited before, I think the Borg were interested in getting something from the ship (hull samples, assimilated people, computer information, Jen Sisko's prize dafodills...) that they bothered to lock onto her, and hold her intact while Ben and the crew scrambled to escape.
quote: ALSO Did the Melbourne ever get a new Captain!?! Riker was supposed to be the new Captain... but he hadn't exactly REFUSED by the time of Wolf 359 - so did the Melbourne go into battle with out an experienced Captain!?!
The Melbourne was described as "a fine ship" by Picard. This probably means that the ship was operational and had some history behind it. Odds are then that the ship simply had a captain who was retired or promoted, and Riker was offered the empty space. I'm sure that the Melbourne had an experienced crew aboard already, and it was probably simiply the XO that was in charge at the time - if the former Captain had even left before some tranferal ceremony. For all we know, some old guy was still in his chair when the Melbourne went up.
quote: Infact maybe this was a problem, maybe the mad scramble for ships left many ships that might have been 'mothballed' with skeleton/unexperienced/unqualified/untrained crewmembers!?! Maybe some of the Engineers of UP/McKinley/SanFran/Luna drydocks offered to help to fill positions!?! Maybe Academy students DID serve!?! Maybe only one ship - and maybe only final year cadets and/or "Red Squad". They needed relatively experienced crew... that 'fleet' must have been VERY rag-tag.
The more I think of the fleet this way, the more I get to like the idea. Surely the majority of ships at Wolf 359 were of the finished and fully-crewed variety, but a fraction of them - no more than 6-8 ships (of 40) at the most, I'd say - could be from Utopica Planitia, the reserve fleet, the museum, or the Academy.
Usually when we see Starfleet go into battle, they're *ready*. At Wolf 359, while everyone who was there *felt* ready, nevertheless this is the closest we have to a chance at seeing what Starfleet looks like when it's caught with its pants down. I say go for it.
Mark
[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
posted
Andrew: I think Mark pretty much answered everthing! Except I think I'm going to make MY Galaxy Class ship pink... with five nacelles... and the reg will be NCC-970-LOVE
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posted
If you're going to do that you might as well make that astroid spacedock from the Art of Star Trek book into a CGI and have the USS Prometheus leaving it and say it's the Beta-Anteres Fleet Yards.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Hey I have to have an asteroid starbase in UNSEEN FRONTIER... In "Balance of Terror," they said the Starbase destroyed by the Romulans was under a mile of rock - what ELSE could it have been??
posted
Mojo, I hope you were only being facaetious... for fun - cause I was just asking/giving "brain-storming" thoughts.
Anyway - I like the pink galaxy ;o) It changes colours based on the mood of it's captain ;o) Of course this Galaxy's captain is a Deltan ;o)
"This is the Captain... we're ALL going to DIE! I've destroyed my "oath of celebacy" record... let's PAR-TAY!!"
Does anyone reckon the neutral zone bases were supposed to be secret bases then!?! being inside rock? Or that they are just OLD - Romulan War times old - and that was how they build space stations then? (On the frontier).
Oh and Mojo, a serious point, if you have two different ships that are of the same class, can they have different lights on... the two warbirds in last year's SOTL calendar looked a bit odd with exactly the same markings on each ship - (down to the bussard ramscoops) and every light that was on was the same.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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