------------------ "Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond
posted
Don't it say in the New Testament that Jesus said that "You will not know the time nor place of my return"?
Ecclesiastes 9:12 says that "no man knows when His hour will come", and Luke says that He'll come at an hour when we least expect him. However, that refers to knowing the exact time. That doesn't contradict the idea of knowing the general period of time, or era of history.
The earthquake would indeed make an impact, and would probably stirr up some beleifs in the apocalypse and other, but I would dismiss it as a coincidence.
Oh, come on, a GLOBAL earthquake? You'd dismiss THAT? Even if it happened after the exact sequence of events predicted?
I don't beleive that a piece of technology such as a microchip would mean that we are submitting to the Satan
The point is that you'd HAVE to swear allegiance to Satan to get one of the marks.
One can only hope [you'll disappear]
I certainly hope I do. I'd prefer not to stick around for the ensuing chaos.
------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, co-operate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, [and] die gallantly. Specialisation is for insects." - Woodrow Wilson Smith
I assumed it was - that if you had the chip - you'll automatically be associated with Satan.
or are you saying...
you will have a choice and that they will say... Satan Chip or no ability to buy/trade... Does that mean you could all band together and not have the chip and make/grow your own stuff?
Cause I don't really want to be IMPLANTED with any tech... drawing a long bow... don't abductees get implants put in them?
I'd draw the line at implanting myself with technology... but there shouldn't be anything wrong with using it?
What about those microrobots that they are developing to help repair damaged organs - that are the size of a pill?? Or would it be an actual skin implant...
What if you were involuntary implanted??
SOOOOO
basically - live your life - as normal, but just don't go getting any chips/marks on the back of your right hand or forehead...
I guess that'd be what everyone should be looking out for?
------------------ "Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001
posted
I for one, believe in science sooo much, that I predict one day every field of our technologies will be so advance, that we will surpass the level which we believe is god!!!!!
------------------ What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend? - With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
Keep in mind Andrew that a LOT of the fundies who have been going on about how the end of the world is nigh and that all the stuff going on like quakes and plauges and floods and stuff. A lot of these people associate themselves with extremist right wing religeous groups, such as the Christian Identity Movement and few other groups such as White Aryan Resistance and such. Keep in mind these are the very same people who made the claim that when Y2K happened, Clinton would turn the USA into a police state, we'd all have to get chipped and that the Jews and the IMF, GATT, NAFTA and whatever were all arms of an incipent world government.
Well, behold, Y2K came and went, the world didn't end and if you ask me, the burden of proof is upon people who believe that Revelation is the absolute, proof positive truth that Jesus is on his way back and that the Anti-Christ is alive and well in Europe.
It's all bullshit. Pure and simple.
------------------ In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
posted
Well, there is always another rational explanation. Maybe I would be unsure, but I know that I will never hold beleif in supernatural forces, man makes his own destiny, there is no greater being that limits my choice as to what I can do and what I can be. If there were such a being I highly doubt that it would be classified as benevolent if it restricts human choice. Religious beleif is good, because it helps you feel secure, but when you start thinking all that is real, you've reached a certain point when in my oppinion you are beyond help.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
you will have a choice and that they will say... Satan Chip or no ability to buy/trade...
Well, assuming for the sake of argument that it IS a chip (which seems to make sense), yeah, that's what would happen.
Does that mean you could all band together and not have the chip and make/grow your own stuff?
Theoretically, but you have to remember that to not be implanted is to refuse to swear allegiance to the Antichrist, who at the point this is supposed to happen will quite likely have been posessed by Satan himself. Chances are, you'd be executed if you were found out.
Or would it be an actual skin implant...
Yeah, it's a mark on the forehead or hand. Which, I suppose, might be personal preference...
Revelation 13:16-17
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to reveive a mark on his right haand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."
What if you were involuntary implanted??
Not possible. It has to be completely voluntary. You only get the mark if you say you want it. But again, threat of death otherwise.
basically - live your life - as normal, but just don't go getting any chips/marks on the back of your right hand or forehead...
I guess that'd be what everyone should be looking out for?
That's one thing, but you'll know it's coming long beforehand. That's halfway into the tribulation already. You'll have a lot more to worry about. That's just pretty well your last chance to choose which side you're on.
And no, choosing not to chose is not possible. The Antichrist would assume you were against him, and he'd execute you. But you'd die without God, so you'd have nothing to look foreward to when you died.
QW:
It's all bullshit. Pure and simple.
Again, your opinion. Irrelevant to the topic.
Practically every Christian on Earth believes the prophecies in Revelation, Andrew. Almost none were proponents of the movements QW mentions. He's setting up a false stereotype of people who believe as I do. You shouldn't believe him.
If there were such a being I highly doubt that it would be classified as benevolent if it restricts human choice.
Exactly why He doesn't. You can do as you please, so long as you're willing to face the consequences of your actions.
------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, co-operate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, [and] die gallantly. Specialisation is for insects." - Woodrow Wilson Smith
[This message has been edited by Omega (edited March 17, 2001).]
quote:and if you ask me, the burden of proof is upon people who believe that Revelation is the absolute, proof positive truth that Jesus is on his way back and that the Anti-Christ is alive and well in Europe.
sorry, can you explain this line - I don't understand what you're saying... *feels silly*
Andrew
------------------ "Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001
posted
On a interesting side note, when I attempted to access the Antichrist page, my Netcape browser crashed. Twice. Good thing I didn't use Explorer or the entire Windows would've gone down the drain.
Anyway, as I have an entirely different belief about "heaven," this whole thing is quite ridiculous. I admit some things in the Bible may be true, as the prophets in those days could've had second sight or something. But nobody will destroy the world except us humans. God, Goddess, Allah, or whatever you'd like to call it, is about Love. JESUS is about Love. The practice of spreading fear in major religions is an attempt to exert control, and I'd be wary of that if I were you.
I'm not even just saying this as a pagan. Much of the readings I encounter are written by very spiritual Christians or they're stuff that cater to Christians. For example, I've read a book that "theorizes" exactly HOW people can "disappear" like Omega imagines. This is based on the "belief" that everything is made up of energy (which has been proven by science). It works through daily meditation and living spiritually (this is different from being religious), which speeds up the vibration of the energy of your body. And through consistent practice anyone can reach a vibration level high enough to disappear.
On the subject of Revelations, when Omega mentioned the building of a temple, I remembered coming across something in my readings where somebody saw in a meditation/hypnotic state/psychic vision (can't remember which) that in the future a temple will be built in Jerusalem by the Jews and Muslims (or Israelites, Palestinians, and Arabs? Perhaps Jews, Muslims, and Christians?). I seem to remember three different peoples.
About why the End of the World is ridiculous: First, Earth is a school which souls come to learn lessons about life, which speeds up their vibration of energy. Souls rise through several levels of being to eventually become one with "god" or a Higher Power Filled with Light and Love. Why the hell would we want to do that? I haven't actually asked anyone about that yet, but I liked Optimus Primal's answer: "so the Matrix can also learn from us." Destruction of Earth in any way would serve no purpose because souls cannot be harmed, and it only deprives us of one school in which we learn. As for "hell", there is none except the one you create for yourself.
Why are there bad things happening on Earth? There are a few categories of bad things. 1. Abuse/murder/intentional crimes: these are caused by free will of people with immature souls to do harm to others in order to gain energy. (Ignore the energy part unless you care to ask) 2. Group disasters (may include natural disasters or plane crashes): Sometimes a group of people will die together to resolve some karmic debt. Karma is neither good or bad, it merely means "action." 3. Cancer/AIDS/terminal diseases/birth defects: People may go through these for their spiritual growth. Spirits of the dead often tells their loved ones (through a medium) that they had to go through whatever illness they had in order to learn from it. Sometimes it's to learn how to receive love from others, sometimes it's for others to learn unconditional love.
Name some other categories, this is all I can come up with.
BIG NOTE: Every unavoidable event a person may go through was pre-planned by his or her soul before incarnation. Free will determines how the person reacts to those events (including suicide). However, murder or abuse is NEVER planned or deserved. Murder is bad and suicide is bad because they either terminate others or your own life lesson prematurely. Capital Punishment is also bad for the same reason. However, like everybody else, suicides do not go to hell unless they want to.
------------------ "Silence is the language god speaks, and everything else is a bad translation." --Father Thomas Keating
[This message has been edited by Tora Ziyal (edited March 17, 2001).]
Him: Again, your opinion. Irrelevant to the topic.
Me: Oh and like yours is?
Him: Practically every Christian on Earth believes the prophecies in Revelation. Andrew. Almost none were proponents of the movements QW mentions. He's setting up a false stereotype of people who believe as I do. You shouldn't believe him.
Me: HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You've got a LOT to learn about some of the most extremist of the extreme fundie Christian groups. And ALL of them DO believe in Revelation, that there will be a racial holy war and that it will happen the second Jesus Christ's feet touches terra firma.
And if i'm setting up a false sterotype and i'm not BTW...you have only yourselves, you as in you Christian Fundies, to blame for it. So up yers. Don't believe me. It's all a big ol' liberal media conspiracy to you anyway. Do you underSTAND me now or do I need to draw you a schematic?
Andrew: What I meant was that a lot of the fundie Christian groups really do believe that the Jews, the UN and other international organizations are out to get THEM, that the Anti-Christ really does live and is somewhere in Rome right now, getting ready to take over the world.
Utter and total fantasy.
That is all I will add to this. Someone else can pick up the debate.
------------------ In this crazy world of lemons, baby...you're lemonade!
posted
dih: Okay, got rid of, disappeared, eliminated, I don't care, just as long as we're rid of them, or whatever term pleases them that are holier than me.
So, all we have to do is get a chip in our hand to be in league with Satan?
I'm not a bad dude or nothing, but where do I sign me up for these techno-sinning devices? I've always wanted to ask Hitler why he felt the need to open a two front war after nearly defeating Britain.
And I wouldn't mind hanging out with Steve Martin, 'cause you know he's going there.
------------------ "I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."
-Darkstar
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]
And through consistent practice anyone can reach a vibration level high enough to disappear.
Not without frying several acres of surrounding real estate, you couldn't. Nothing just disappears. That'd be in violation of energy conservation. I'll grant you the possibility that you could convert to pure energy, for the sake of argument, but there'd be so MUCH energy that you'd destroy half of the county you were in.
But nobody will destroy the world except us humans.
As I said, the world is never actually destroyed. Granted, it's stated that if not for the Second Coming, the horrors perpetrated by Antichrist would have continued to that point, but God will cut the time short so that that won't happen.
QW:
You've got a LOT to learn about some of the most extremist of the extreme fundie Christian groups.
I know all I need to know: they're loonies. I never said that NONE believed the things you said. I said ALMOST none. I know literally hundreds of Christians personally, and have access to thousands more. I can guarentee you that none believe in the wacky things you indicate that the majority of Christians believe.
Oh and like your [opinion] is [relevant]?
If a question is asked about the things I believe in, I answer that question. Since you believe something completely different, your beliefs are not relevant to the question asked. Therefore, yes, my beliefs are relevant to the topic, whereas your beliefs aren't.
And if i'm setting up a false sterotype and i'm not BTW
Yes, you are. The vast majority of Christians do not believe the things you claim they believe. Thus, you are setting up a false stereotype by trying to convince Andrew that we do. Have you tried asking any Christians what they believe about the end-times?
What I meant was that a lot of the fundie Christian groups really do believe that the Jews, the UN and other international organizations are out to get THEM
Case in point. It is not true that a lot of groups believe this, Andrew. I'd be surprised if you could find three. You are being fed false information. Again, please e-mail me if you want to ask specific questions. [email protected]
Curiosity, QW: can you give me a rough estimate of what percentage of the Christian population you think believe the things you say? I can guarentee you that it's far less than .001%. I can find athiests who believe that the world is flat. They're few and far between, but they do exist. Does that mean that the vast majority of athiests believe that the world is flat? Does it mean that any appreciable fraction at all do?
that the Anti-Christ really does live and is somewhere in Rome right now
THIS, I'll grant. If the Antichrist is to take over the world for seven years before the Second Coming as predicted, and if you assume that the sequence of events leading up to the Second Coming is going to begin within the next three decades, then it would be logical to assume that the Antichrist has been born. It's just a matter of whether you believe He's coming back soon or not.
And yes, Antichrist probably would be living in Europe somewhere, as there is prophetic reference to his coming from the same lineage as those who originally scattered the Jews. This would seem to be Romans. "Left Behind" has him coming from Romania, where the people are of strong Italian descent.
'Course, lots of Italians live here, too. For all we know, it could be some mafia boss from New York.
Or the next Pope.
UM:
got rid of, disappeared, eliminated, I don't care, just as long as we're rid of them
Believe me on this: if you don't like the fact that we exist NOW, you have no idea what's in store for you later. BILLIONS will come to believe after the Rapture. I pray that you'll be among them.
------------------ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, co-operate, act alone, solve equations, analyse a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, [and] die gallantly. Specialisation is for insects." - Woodrow Wilson Smith
posted
"Believe me on this: if you don't like the fact that we exist NOW, you have no idea what's in store for you later. BILLIONS will come to believe after the Rapture. I pray that you'll be among them."
This is the reason I don't now.
Anyway,
Fundies are boring.
Discussions on things that may or may not be true are boring.
Discussions on mythology are boring.
Discussions on the views of a non-majority religion's end of the world are boring.
Discussions on the views of any religion's end of the world are boring.
Wild speculation and rampant prophecy association is boring.
Arguing with people who don't listen is boring.
Discussions about how people can vibrate really fast are boring.
Batman Forever is boring.
Stubborness is boring.
Someone needs to start discussing porn.
------------------ "I WANT A POST VOY SERIES STAR TREK ORIGINAL MESSAGE WAS LOOKING FORWARD NOT LOOKING BACK."
-Darkstar
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 17, 2001).]
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