Cartman
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And wasn't the timeline to the destruction of B5 in a great battle or stand the future that would have occured if the events in "War Without End" didn't come to fruition.
Yes.
Babylon 5 sucked ass after the Shadows turned out to be such whiney pussies. And people talk about DS9's war ending with a fizzle.
*sigh*
The nature of B5's V-S conflict was different from that of DS9's F-D one. Thus it had to end differently. Duh.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:Originally posted by TSN: It probably took more time, money, and effort. In the early seasons, they say "wow, look at this neat effect we can show off so everyone can see how far ahead of TOS this is". Later on, though, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Bingo. We got holographics all over the place in the first and some of the second season. Yar's funeral message, Data's portrait of her, the odd planetary orbit diagram already mentioned, the girls playing music for Riker (in the one with the Bynars, IIRC). I think there was another one that I'm not remembering too. They wanted to give the impression that this was a magical ship that could do anything.
Too bad they couldn't make Wesley's tractor beam effect not suck.
"It's odd that while such SFX was present in the first few seasons, it dwindled to the use of display screens by TNG's end."
It probably took more time, money, and effort. In the early seasons, they say "wow, look at this neat effect we can show off so everyone can see how far ahead of TOS this is". Later on, though, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Of course, but in critical briefings (such as tyhe re-taking of Ds9) they could've splurged at least a little.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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"It's odd that while such SFX was present in the first few seasons, it dwindled to the use of display screens by TNG's end."
It probably took more time, money, and effort. In the early seasons, they say "wow, look at this neat effect we can show off so everyone can see how far ahead of TOS this is". Later on, though, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Of course, but in critical briefings (such as the re-taking of DS9) they could've splurged at least a little.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Cartman: And wasn't the timeline to the destruction of B5 in a great battle or stand the future that would have occured if the events in "War Without End" didn't come to fruition.
Yes.
Babylon 5 sucked ass after the Shadows turned out to be such whiney pussies. And people talk about DS9's war ending with a fizzle.
*sigh*
The nature of B5's V-S conflict was different from that of DS9's F-D one. Thus it had to end differently. Duh.
I'm not starting a "B5 Vs Ds9" debate (as I think they share little in common aside from a space station and ongoing story arc). It's not the way the war ended so much that irks me but rather that we saw these wonderful, complex aliens with their own strange motivations and mystery and in one episode they're reduced to scared children not wanting "to be left all alone".
I think JMS wrote himself into a corner and made Lorien as a Dues Ex Machina to wrap up the storyline. Very disapointing for me.
Man, I loved the Shadows until that one moment.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Yeah nothing really in the Vorlon or Shadow background alluded to them being 'scared children'. Lorien was definately a Deus Ex Machina to deal with the 'god-like' Shadows and Vorlons. I guess he didn't want to go the 'all out war' route - but there were other ways of dealing with it. That's where DS9's war worked - they tied in well established continuity etc to deal with their 'major threat' Odo, Dr. Bashir/O'Brien/Section 31/Science and Kira/Cardassians fighting the good-fight. I also guess they had to pay for their own use of a Deus Ex Machina in "Sacrifice of Angels" with Sisko's punishment. I loved the parting shot of DS9 - not because of the effects - but because it also was a nice continuity point of Kira consoling Jake on the loss of Sisko - which harkened back to a similar shot in "The Visitor".
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
Cartman
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That's better. B)
And I see where you're coming from. That "get the hell out of our galaxy" speech had to be one of the most cringe-inducing moments in the history of SF television. But still. It wasn't a DEM, just a sucky resolution (two billion-year old races feeling lonely, OK JMS). At least the IDEA was new. DS9's ending, though, sucked because it WASN'T new at all. To me. Just a very conventional wrapup (minus the Sisko/Dukat Christ/AntiChrist thing). Anyway.
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"I also guess they had to pay for their own use of a Deus Ex Machina in 'Sacrifice of Angels' with Sisko's punishment."
If you're looking for a deus ex machina in the DS9 war arc, how about the bit where the Dominion was sending a fleet through the wormhole that would have essentially obliterated the Federation, and the Prophets just sort of blinked them out of existence?
Registered: Mar 1999
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Well, that's okay if you go by the "there will be a price" thing. Which we assume is Jadzia's death.
Of course, that death would have been more poingant if Dax hadn't come back less than two episodes later.
And as for people listing Dax episodes, I notice that none of them are from season 5 onwards. Which kind of proves her point.
(B5 was hurt by the whole "we don't know if we're getting a fifth season thing". It made season 4 horrible crushed. The war with the Shadows essentially starts with "Shadow Dancing", and it's over 7 episodes later. That's rather rushed. Thank god the Earth stuff came across as "fast and panic-ey and exciting", rather than "rast and rushed and crap".)
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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"I also guess they had to pay for their own use of a Deus Ex Machina in 'Sacrifice of Angels' with Sisko's punishment."
If you're looking for a deus ex machina in the DS9 war arc, how about the bit where the Dominion was sending a fleet through the wormhole that would have essentially obliterated the Federation, and the Prophets just sort of blinked them out of existence?
Yes - that's what I was talking about - "The Sacrifice of Angels" DS9 season 6.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Well, that's okay if you go by the "there will be a price" thing. Which we assume is Jadzia's death.
Actually - I didn't realise - but yeah that's ANOTHER price that Sisko had to pay. Jadzia dying. I was thinking - and I think the show alluded to it more that Sisko's penance was him being removed from the universe
1. From his Son 2. From Bajor his work with the Bajorans and his position as Captain on DS9 3. From his wife 4. From seeing his 2nd child being born and growing up.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I agree with Andrew here: Sisko wanted to build a life on Bajor and the Prophets denied him that as pennance.
Jadzia getting killed was just Dukat-A-Mojin doing his thing....though if Sisko had just listened to the Prophet's warning not to go, he might have stopped him.
mabye.
That brings to mind another thing missing on B5 after the Shadow WAr: there was really no one villan to like or despise....no one really stood out after they behesded Mr. Morden.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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"Yes - that's what I was talking about - 'The Sacrifice of Angels' DS9 season 6."
Okay, I see what you meant. When they told him about the punishment. I'd been thinking you meant the punishment itself.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Does it count as Deus Ex Machina if there is some sort of counter balance? I suppose, technically, it is, but I always take the stereotypically bad DEM to be "oh, everything's been fixed, carry on with no repurcussions".
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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