posted
Well, the Ark wasn't supposed to be carried on cart at all, so yeah.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Specifically, the zapped in question was reaching out to steady the Ark after the cart it was on hit a bump. (Demonstrating, so the story intends us to understand, a lack of faith in the ability of God to handle his own affairs.)
I’m rather more inclined to think that it demonstrates that Judaism and Christianity are religions, with an aspect of numen and not reason alone; and that humanity plays a central part in that divine approach, dangerous as it may be. cf. Rudolf Otto, Das Heilige (tr. The Idea of the Holy) - a good book
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"I mean, surely Yahweh could find his own animals to slaughter, burn, and sniff at..."
Well, surely he could also have carried the fucking thing himself if he was that twitchy about it and didn't want people doubting his ability to handle his own affairs. But I guess zapping his underlings just for kicks was a bigger incentive for them to bolster their faith in the guy.
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I'm inclined to think that Judiasm and Christianity are not related religions at all but rather Christianity took a few ideas and names from the old popular text (and many folloowers in the process) but is not the same idea at all.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
You're forgetting the whole Messiah stuff from the OT. The two are related in that Christians believe the fulfillment of Jewish beliefs is in Jesus Christ. Not all Jews accepted this then, nor do they now. The differences you see have many reasons. For one, Jews no longer have the temple, it was destroyed in 70AD and without it they can't perform many of their beliefs. Secondly, accepting that Jesus is the Messiah changes things. The biggest instance, the Messiah as predicted in the OT was meant to be an end all sacrafice, one for all instances for all time. So in the end if you believed that, it would be stupid to continue the other sacrafices because the Messiah's sacrafice made them unnecessary. You don't pay for something twice, you don't sacrafice for something twice.
There's a lot more to it than that, but your inclination is way off. Most reasonable secular research would come to the same conclusion that Christianity is essentially a sect of Judaism.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
For one, Jews no longer have the temple, it was destroyed in 70AD and without it they can't perform many of their beliefs.
The funny thing being that God never ordered the building of the Temple in the first place, it was apparently David's idea.
Most reasonable secular research would come to the same conclusion that Christianity is essentially a sect of Judaism.
"Essentially"? "Technically", perhaps, but there are massive qualitative differences between the two.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Not nearly as big a difference as say either of them compared to any truly different religious systems such as Bhuddism, Taoism, Scientology, or native American beliefs.
In fact, given that perspective one would be most inclined to replace the phrase "massive qualitative differences" with "minor qualitative differences."
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
The way I see it, Christianity is to Judaism what Protestantism and Reformationism are to Roman Catholicism. Only, on a signifcantly larger scale.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
(I don't have a copy handy anymore, but the Temple is built under divine instruction, I thought? And, in fact, there are two slightly different versions of the story of its construction. ((In the first, David lays the groundwork for his son, Solomon. In the second, David intends to build the whole thing but is stopped by God.)) Also, the whole Messiah thing is, to be charitable, open to interpretation in the Hebrew Bible. Though, OK, I am far from a Biblical scholar. ((Though it obviously is open to interpretation, if only because the Jewish world didn't convert en masse to Christianity.)) This should maybe be spun off to the Flameboard.)
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
IIRC, David *wanted* to build the Temple, but God told him that his son, Solomon, would do it. Instead of pushing forward in his efforts, David humbly followed that instruction and gathered materials for the building work. Lumber, money, etc., even donating much from his personal wealth. He didn't lay the foundation though. He just prepared for the project.
Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Yes, it was David that prepared the building of the temple but he wasn't permitted to build it because he was a man of war. And it was also built under divine instruction. See 2nd Sam 7 for most of that reference... but then there is also the tabernacle which was before the temple.
And you're also twisting what I said about Christianity being Judaism. Christians consider themselves Jews, whether by birth [they were descendents of Jacob/Israel] or adoption [they were originally Gentiles]. There are major differences between first century Judaism and modern day Judaism, but I haven't the time to go through them. For the major part, first century Jews used animal sacrafice to cover sins and make them spiritally clean before God [goes back to sin's payment is death, so something has to die]. Messiah's role in Judaism was to bring a perfect sacrafice, make it to where animal sacrafice were no longer necessary because one perfect all atoning sacrafice had been made. Christians believe that it was Messiah/Jesus himself who is the sacrafice, Jews [both those who didn't believe in the 1st century and modern day] do not believe that. At the same time, in the 1st century it was also widely believed that Messiah would return Israel's earthly kingdom, in short throw off Roman rule... many Christians believed that in the beginning too, and Jesus' corrected it. Even today, Jews believe that Messiah will return Israel to it's former glory. The two religions are connected by that, but separated by it also.
So anyway, what were we talking about?
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
