posted
The Saladin sucks waaaay more. Either the Connie is grossly inefficent (needing that secondary hull for engineering) or the Saladin would have to have no engineering section or warpcore.
It's just a silly cut-n-paste without any thought put into it. I really dig the FH Dreadnaught, but the saladin is just lame.
I can almost go for the Akula- if the engineering dept was in the saucer and everything was crammed as hell with minimal crew and no shuttlebay, etc. It'd look nice of it had some sort of extended saucer...possibly just an extra deck in the saucer even: then it would sorta follow a reverse Constalation design lineage.
Still, nothing is worse than Jackill's Shanks class- just a saucer with nacelles sticking out the sides! WTF?!? Jackill's got some great stuff, but this aint one of them.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Not worth the puke threatening to heave from by guts after looking at it.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: The Saladin sucks waaaay more. Either the Connie is grossly inefficent (needing that secondary hull for engineering) or the Saladin would have to have no engineering section or warpcore.
Dude, in TOS engineering was in the saucer and the M/AM reaction took place in the nacelles. The Connie's vast internal space was used for things like arboretums, science labs, crew quarters, and bowling alleys. It was a ship designed to be out of port for years at a time and carry 400 people. There's no reason why a smaller, shorter range vessels crewed by fewer people and designed only to perform certain types of specialized tasks would need all that bulk.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
That's a silly notion because it would mean the Connie Refit is less advanced for having to use the secondary hull as engineering (and it spans much of the secondary hull).
I could almost buy your explanation of they did not cunt/paste the Connie's "neck" to connect the nacelle to the saucer- it's a road to no where with minimal useable space (in the neck).
And of course there's all the other systems that would need major room from the saucer to accomidate- deflector control for starters. I mean, the saucer only has so much room- building that design from the inside out would yield a far diffrent looking vessel. And I dont buy the "modular saucers/parts" theory here.
It's just a lazy design. Go with jackill's Loki class instead.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: That's a silly notion because it would mean the Connie Refit is less advanced for having to use the secondary hull as engineering (and it spans much of the secondary hull).
Well, the refit could have an entirely new reactor design. For all we know, the original Connies could have had a reactor similar to NX-01's. That reactor was relatively small compared to the size of the ship. I see no reason that the original Connie had a reactor of similar configuration, even if it was twice the size it wouldn't take up that much room in the saucer.
If I remember correctly, the NX class had a multiple stage warp propulsion system. What if technology continued to build on that system, to the point that even the original Connie design had a multiple stage system, with the reactor in the saucer, but with conduits running along the neck to the other stages in the engineering hull.
Perhaps some big redesign of the warp drive that made it more efficient, lead to the warp drive system becoming a more compact design allowing the whole system to be in one place, but the whole package was big enough that it necessitated it being placed in the secondary hull. Maybe these upgrades were based on stuff learned from the developement of the Excelsior. The project probably strarted many years before the ship was launched, and perhaps the whle purpose of the Excelsior was not "transwarp" in the first place. The whole point could have been just to have a redesigned warp core design, and that somehow lead to the possibility of transwarp technology.
The basic redesign might have been approved for mass refit into vessels that were able to, like the Constitution class. The Connie could handle the new reactor, but the ship itself couldn't handle the stresses of transwarp speeds, so the reactor's abilities/ power output ( or whatever is necessary for the transition to transwarp speeds) was stunted to make transwarp impossible. The new reactor, whether capable of transwarp or not, was still probably massively more efficient than the Connie's original warp drive system though. The Excelsior was then purpose built with transwarp in mind and the new reactor design was allowed to work to the best of it's ability. Maybe the whole theoretical idea of transwarp was flawed anyway, and wouldn't work even in the proper ship design. But, the new design of the warp core worked, and was used from then on, with future designs evolving from that design instead of the past NX style design. The Excelsior design might have lasted for as long as it did, because of the extra ruggedness built into the design to cope with the stresses of transwarp.
I fear that I have over-explained my point again...
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Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yeah...we're all smart enough to make plausable excuses for sucky designs, but it's too much work after a while.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
The Connie refit had all new systems that were more advanced and complex, requiring a totally different layout than its predecessor. TMP actually made it a point to establish that.
The neck on the Saladin is probably there for power/fuel conduits, a turbolift for the maintenance of the nacelle, ect.
The Franz Joseph designs were not at all poorly thought out considering what (little) was established about how starships worked in TOS and TAS. Sure, stuff came along later that altered and elaborated upon those premises, causing some inconsistencies to arise. That doesn't mean that his original design process was flawed.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
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posted
someone clicky a pic from 'A Mirror, Darkly', the one showing the skematic of the engineering and Nacelles. pretty sure that pic alone will prove it's cannon that engineering was mostly in the Secondary Hull...
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Suffice to say I disagree. Moving on?
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