posted
I, on the other hand, have always assumed that Kirk recorded his testimony after Star Trek II in response to the Federation Council's investigation. It's not like he's really busy during that time.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Someone who is less cool than me get the script and work out what Kirk is actually saying. That should give us a better clue.
And I still say that he never gives the impression at any point during STII that he doesn't know what Genesis is.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Why would Kirk know anything more than Tyrell?
Really? I thought Roy Batty killed Tyrell back in 2019...
Oh you guys mean Capt. Terrell!
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Why would Kirk know anything more than Tyrell?
Really? I thought Roy Batty killed Tyrell back in 2019...
Oh you guys mean Capt. Terrell!
Paul Winfield: More human than human.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I, on the other hand, have always assumed that Kirk recorded his testimony after Star Trek II in response to the Federation Council's investigation. It's not like he's really busy during that time.
Exactly.
Enterprise is boned: seriously damaged, they mabye do a quick spin of the area surrounding the Genesis planet (to shoot off Spock and for Jim to give his little speach) and then they had to retrieve Reliant's crew (probably not really close based on Reliant's original return time to the station).
Then they met another ship somewhere on the way back to Spacedock, dropped off the trainees and Reliant's crew, managed to blow up part of the torpedo bay and do some makeshift patching of the secondary hull's damage.
More than enough time for Kirk and company to be throughly grilled over the incident by Starfleet Command and to prepare that little presentation for the Council.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: 1.) I wonder if Kirk was supposed to be the commandant of Starfleet Academy at the time?
Well according to the script on ST-Minutiae , this dialog that I don't quite recall answers that, as well as an eariler "Space Seed" reference made by someone else:
quote: KHAN (RE: the Reliant) It's not much different from Enterprise. (beat) When I was a guest aboard her some years ago, Captain Kirk kindly allowed me to memorize her technical manuals.
And now, Mr. Chekov, let us review: You say you have no details of Project 'Genesis' ?
CHEKOV Beyond what I told you, sir, it is classified information.
KHAN Umm. And would Admiral Kirk have access to such information?
CHEKOV I would think so, sir. He's on the Fleet General Staff.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: 2.) "The promo-vid shown in ST III had to have been made before the events of ST II"
On what do you base this? (Assuming it isn't something obvious, like a stardate I've never paid attention to.)
It was never specifically stated one way or the other that Kirk was aware of Genesis, despite what Chekov said. Spock, however, specifically stated that he had no knowledge of Genesis:
quote: KIRK Give up Genesis, she said. What in God's name does that mean? Give it up to whom?
SPOCK It might help my analysis if I knew what Genesis was.
Then while watching the tape there is a small exchange where Spock is impressed with the inital description and Kirk say "wait" as in 'it only gets better', implying Kirk has seen it before.
Anyway, thats my take on it...
"Emissary" to "The Wrath of Khan"....quite a gear change.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I have the nice normal version of TWOK (the one with Scotty explaining about his nephew in engineering) and I've never heard any of those Kahn-Chekov lines much less Kirk's "it only gets better" line....I take it this was never filmed or put into the SE.
If Kirk knew about Genesis, it sure doesnt come across that way onscreen. Why else would he say "What the God's name is Genesis?" if he'd already seen the demo?
Is there any mention of WHY Kahn thinks Kirk would have acess to Genesis but Terrell wouldnt?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I have the nice normal version of TWOK (the one with Scotty explaining about his nephew in engineering) and I've never heard any of those Kahn-Chekov lines much less Kirk's "it only gets better" line....I take it this was never filmed or put into the SE.
No, he only said "Wait..." as if saying "Wait, it only gets better..." and I agree, I didn't rememeber that Khan/Chekov conversation either. Seems to me, ye ole' MinuteMan needs a more accurate script on his site...
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Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: [QUOTE]No, he only said "Wait..." as if saying "Wait, it only gets better..." and I agree, I didn't rememeber that Khan/Chekov conversation either. Seems to me, ye ole' MinuteMan needs a more accurate script on his site...
More accurate than the shooting script? Just cuz it ain't in the movie don't mean it wasn't in the script. Hell, whole scenes were rearranged in editing in TWOK.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: If Kirk knew about Genesis, it sure doesnt come across that way onscreen. Why else would he say "What the God's name is Genesis?" if he'd already seen the demo?
He never said "What in God's name is Genesis" in any version of the movie I've seen.
He said "Genesis, what's that?" in a rather poor attempt to fool Khan after he had already seen the Genesis demo.
Kirk was head of Starfleet Operations after he was promoted to Admiral following the first five year mission and might have returned to that position after a second five year mission or immediately after the V'ger Incident. The TWoK script makes it look as if Kirk still holds the Chief of Operations position (he cuts Sulu's orders to take command of Excelsior in the script).
I would think the head of Starfleet Operations would be privy to information regarding Genesis.
Clearly he knew about it because when Carol Marcus asks "Why are you taking Genesis away from us?" he doesn't ask what Genesis is, he's merely shocked someone would try and take it.
And Dr. Marcus is not surprised that he would have access to the information, she even believes it's possible that he would give the order to take Genesis because she asks him if he did.
There's nothing in the movie that gives the impression that he doesn't know what Genesis is.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
Registered: Sep 2003
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The real thing that I'm suprised no one ever brings up is that Kirk was aware what had happened to Kahn's people and didint send anyone to help them.
What a bastard.
In TWOK, Chekov is whining about having creatures in his brain (sissy) and says "Sir...it was Kahn! He blames you..." Kirk: "I know what he blames me for!"
How the fuck did he know that unless he knew about the supernova (and it's not like starfleet should have somehow missed a star in their own space exploding!)? Also, Starfleet would've kept some kind of tabs on ol' Kannie.
way I see it, Kirk is the movie's real villain.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
A *planet* exploded, not a star. If it were an M-class world, odds are that casual scans might miss it. Ceti Alpha might be out in the sticks as far as the Federation was concerned, so it's not especially likely that anyone really noticed. It was MORE dumb that Reliant warped into the system to find one *less* planet floating around without mentioning it.
posted
Wouldnt there have been lots of obvious fresh debris if a whole planet had blown itself up within the past 20 or so years?
Besides the incredible amount of energy needed to actually make the planet's pieces escape the pull of gravity and not just collapse back into itself- resulting in a very fucked planet with about the same mass.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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