quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: -- So the Vulcans in the Mirror Universe were sending an "invasion" to Earth back in 2063? Based on later episodes, I somehow doubt that it's JUST the Humans in the MU that are different, so it certainly seems possible. And my fears based on the spoilers, that First Contact was the initial divergence between the universes, proved groundless. Obviously, since it was Cochrane himself who killed Solkar -- Spock's great-grandfather! -- then the event of First Contact couldn't possibly have been the point of divergence.
Actually, First Contact does seem to be the point of divergence. There's no trace of an invasion force in the opening scenes of this episode.
But, if we're going to assume that the history of the Terran Empire is at least partially accurate in its claim of an invasion force, then we'd have to believe that Vulcans came in force after their first contact team got shotgunned.
Otherwise, it was mere propaganda.
==========
The only counterargument to this idea is the shot of the Terran Empire's flag being placed on the moon. Coming as it does before the shot of the Phoenix, it may suggest that an evil planetary government was already in place by 2063.
On the other hand:
1. The moon guy was in a 2150's EV suit. 2. The First Contact scenes suggest that WW3 had indeed occurred, which we might not expect if a planetary government capable of moonshots was in place. (Of course, the United Terra government might not've been completely planetary, leading to a WW3 in which the UT won and the others lost.)
In any event, the Vulcan landing would've thus been (a) a bad idea on the Vulcan's part, and (b) the cause of the Terran Empire.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote:Originally posted by QuinnTV: When Archer showed the stolen footage in the initial briefing, it did appear that the forward saucer was damaged.
It appeared to me an obstruction from the Tholian dock more than physical damage to the ship itself. I can't wait for a replay to scour this episode again!
posted
That drydock built into the astroid must have been the concept from Phase II...
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged
And, since the Tholian was stated to have an exoskeleton, I would assume that that was the only part of it that was crystalline. Probably they have other bits on the inside.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Captain Boh: Oh, was Cochrane there in First Contact when the Vulcan ship landed, I can't remember. Either way, the Phoenix must have a good landing system
I'm afraid I'm going to have to revoke your Trekkie card, sir. Don't you remember the dramatic moment in First Contact (the movie) when Cochrane steps forward to shake the Vulcan's hand?
Its been some time since I saw the movie. Now that I think about it, I do remember.
Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
"Actually, First Contact does seem to be the point of divergence. There's no trace of an invasion force in the opening scenes of this episode."
Though its certanly not fact, but it is sort of implied that this is what watching Star Trek Enterprise would be like in the mirror universe, so its possible that the differences extend farther back, though they may not be as noticeable
Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
posted
Holy frack on a stick, was this a fun episode. I haven't anticipated a part two since DS9, and this SO totally beat anything since then. These MU episodes don't HAVE a reset button, so anything can happen with the crew, and has.
-While I can accept that Cochrane was the point of divergence, I'd rather re-state my belief that the MU is fundamentally evil, at least where humans are concerned. Everything else dominoes from here. As for the guy on the moon, given that it's a 2150s suit, I'd be willing to rationalize that as an out-of-place clip of a 2150s guy taking a stroll on his Empire's moon.
-Likewise, I'd say that the Vulcan invasion force was a propaganda thing to help keep hold on the subjugated species.
-The shot of a futuristic city getting blown up in the opening credits is from "Dragon's Teeth". The one with Enterprise fighting a fleet of alien ships is from somewhere in the latter third season, when she takes on a bunch of Xindi ships in an effort to stop the weapon.
-We didn't think they did, but the epaulets HAVE a purpose here. Oddly enough, the Tellarite in the booth and ther two Vulcan stooges didn't have them, while everyone else did.
-The female uniforms were ridiculous as expected, but... Screw it. HOSHI IS HOT.
-Archer has darker hair here, but the REAL follicular change here is that Mayweather has MORE hair. His hairline is significantly more forward than usual, and you can see where it switches from real hair to the appliance in some shots.
-The brig is identical to our NX-01, with two cells. It's a simple matter of the set guys not bothering to change it, but it's still kinda jarring how a recent refit in our universe translates over to theirs as well.
-Are all the weapons on the ready room wall Archer's, or Forrest's? I'm guessing Archer didn't have the time to redecorate. Regardless, Cochrane's famous shotgun is now space dust.
-The "typical" Tholian ship here apparently has but one pilot. It certainly looks like the stock model from its previous appearance, in look and size.
-If you're the one pilot on a Tholian ship, and you have both male and female equipment, and you get really lonely on a deep-space mission..?
-Being an engineer here isn't so hot. Trip (and the unscarred extras) apparently get regular doses of delta radiation from hanging around the core. Not waiting around to design a safe core ould be one reason behind the technological leaps these folks have.
-The Defiant doesn't look damaged in the monitor photo. There's a Tholian webslinger in front of the saucer, and what could be its shadow.
-They engage everything but aux power to cloak Enterprise. This further solidifies the horrid DS9 episode "The Emperor's New Cloak" as part of ANOTHER MU, really.
-The asteroid facility looks decidedly NOT Tholian, having girders, cranes and stuff that don't match established design. It was likely built by their servants, I guess.
-Trip implies that the size of warp coils are related to possible speed. He estimates Defiant can push warp 7 at least.
-The Tholian web, while hardly the most complex effect ever, was the single coolest one all episode. Also, it possibly confirms tha notion that a webslinger works exponentialy faster when you have more than two ships, one of which was damaged. Still, it was odd that energy weapons (and presumably escape pods) penetrated the web while torpedo fire did not. And as the kicker, Enterprise fired while still cloaked.
-I cheered when the Defiant's engines spun up, and so did you. I haven't cheered at a Trek effect since the Klingons came pouring out of the sky to turn the tide in "Sacrifice of Angels".
-Forrest gets the blaze of glory he never got when our version was killed. And I still maintain that by the end of next episode, Archer re-names the Defiant "Enterprise".
posted
You'd have thought thay'd at least used a Master Replicas TOS Phaser, but noo - it's an Art Asylum, you can ever see the screw-hole on the side (above the dial on the left) just as Archer picks it up.
I was never a fan of the DS9 MU stories, and I've always preferred the view put forward in "Dark Mirror," that that whole universe was somehow screwed-up in some fundamental way. Or at least Earth was, the Vulcans seemed pretty normal really.
The other day I was driving and listening to the radio, and I heard some news story or other, one of the many fucked-up things that happens these days. And I'd been thinking about this episode coming up, and the thought just popped into my head - WE are the Mirror Universe. Right now I can't see this species ever producing a world like the one we see in Star Trek; Mirror Star Trek though, no problem.
posted
I just saw the episode and all I have to is holy shit.
quote: The other day I was driving and listening to the radio, and I heard some news story or other, one of the many fucked-up things that happens these days. And I'd been thinking about this episode coming up, and the thought just popped into my head - WE are the Mirror Universe. Right now I can't see this species ever producing a world like the one we see in Star Trek; Mirror Star Trek though, no problem.
I agree whole heartedly, I mean if people can easily grow to be racist even today, than hating a different species would be no problem. You know a while back some here comicly suggested that Mirror Universe was the one where George W Bush was re-elected. He may not be far off from the truth...
Anyways, the scene I cheered the most was not so much the activation of the Defiant, but the creation of the Tholian Web. That scene made me giggle with glee.
The thing with Enterprise firing while cloaked may indicate that every alien species that develope cloaking devices don't always develope a carbon copy of the Romulan one. Who's knows, the Suliban cloaking device may not even be as reliable as a Romulan one.
Finally, one thing I noticed about the escape pods is that they looked similar to the time bombs one can set in the video game Star Wars Battlefront. Anyone who has the game knows what I'm talking about.
Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
posted
If the "point of divergence" was Cochrane, why was a Terran Empire flag being planted on the moon in the opening credits?? Yes, I realize it's not really part of the history as far as properly 'plotted canon' goes, but it's still worth noting. And my question from before has been answerd by Lee , it was an Art Asylum phaser prop, not a custom jobbie.
posted
Also, in one shot of Defiant in dock, we see a Tholian ship spin around while still maintaining the same direction of travel. This is pretty rare in Trek...
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Don't you remember the dramatic moment in First Contact (the movie) when Cochrane steps forward to shake the Vulcan's hand?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
