How do they know the skin colour of the applicants? From my hazy memory of filling in my UCAS form (UK university application), I don't think it asked for your skin colour. Or a photo.

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You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston."
-Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park

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God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.

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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

There's a difference between Racial Profiling and Affirmative Action. The difference being that Racial Profiling is the continued perpetuation of racism against blacks and hispanics; while Affirmative Action is an attempt to heal the wounds of racism in this country.

Personally, I think Affirmative Action was needed, but it's time has mostly gone (although, I think companies and schools which still practice racism -- Texaco, Bob Jones University -- could still benefit from it). As I understand it, it's been abolished in California already. It's also time to take the "Mark Your Race" off all these forms, and abolish the practice that certain schools (etc.) have of including a photo of yourself.

At the same time, I think it's very short sighted of people to chastise women and minorities for the economic dislocation of white men.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
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"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

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"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Of course, Ritten, but you have to realize that the system is racist. See, there don't have to be racist PEOPLE in the system for the system to be racist, and thus creating another racist system to combat an existing one is "OK".

JK:

Then we agree that police need to held responsible when they use excessive force.

Of course we do. That is not the issue. The issue is that we don't know whether the officer in this situation did, in fact, use excessive force, all your statements to the contrary notwithstanding. We know nothing, and until we do, we won't know the appropriate remedy.

Nevertheless, opinion surveys show that most Americans still support the goal of equal opportunity in employment and education. A recent Gallup poll showed that 73 percent of Americans approve of companies making conscientious efforts to identify and recruit qualified women and people of color. Clearly, then, during the years that we have lived with affirmative action, we have learned its lessons. Most Americans now understand that discrimination is wrong. All people deserve equal access to the means of fulfilling their potential, and equal opportunity to be judged solely on their abilities and on "the content of their character."

Affirmative action is not a "quota" system, not "preferential treatment," not a club for bludgeoning employers and educational institutions into accepting unqualified workers and students. It's a strategy for curing what ails our society's institutions, which are still plagued with discriminatory attitudes and practices that exclude millions of qualified and deserving people from the American mainstream. Affirmative action is an instrument of inclusion, a means of bringing all Americans into society's mainstream as equal competitors in the race of life.

Affirmative action is still needed. Although women and people of color have come a long way in the decades since the Civil Rights Act was passed, discrimination persists. In 1991, President Bush and Congress appointed a 21-member Federal Glass Ceiling Commission to identify barriers that block the advancement of women and people of color into decision making positions. In March, the commission reported back: "Today's American labor force is gender and race segregated -- white men fill most top management positions in corporations."

Affirmative action does not penalize white males. Fairness requires ending biased practices, not perpetuating them, and that includes ending the unjust advantages traditionally enjoyed by whites and white men. The conscientious effort to hire or admit women and people of color is a way for employers and schools to break their habit of favoring whites and males, and a way to facilitate the transition to nondiscriminatory practices. Restructuring a discriminatory status quo to create a nondiscriminatory environment isn't "reverse discrimination," but it may feel that way because something is being lost: White people are losing the favoritism they so long enjoyed in a system that discriminated on the basis of color and sex.

--The ACLU

A few years old. But I think it makes a good point. Awww, we're poor white males. Awww, we don't get everything as easily as we used to. Let's scream about racism and throw a fit.

::sigh::

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

Let's assume that if you've been playing hard, for a long time, and are especially talented at it, you become a Gonzo Wizzard Game Master. And there's a limited number of Gonzo Wizzard Game Master spots available.

If every (or almost every) Gonzo Wizzard Game Master was left handed, would we assume that the Gonzo Wizzard Gamer's Association was prejudiced against right-handers, or would we assume that left-handers tend to be BETTER Gonzo Wizzard Game players?

And suppose someone then created "new Rules" to "force" the promotion to Gonzo Wizzard Game Master of some right-handed players, whether or not they are as qualified as the left-handed Gonzo Wizzard Game Masters.

Would that increase or decrease the quality of the game? And is it entirely unreasonable to assume that the left-handed players would see something wrong about that? And would that solution REALLY serve to improve the playing skills of the right-handers?

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The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching

"Awww ... I'm a white male. Society wants to make blacks and hispanics and women equal to me. Boo-hoo."

That is the stupidest, most ignorant -- most racist -- remark I've ever heard.

Equal by creation? Gee, now, if racism didn't exist, that would be a valid response. You ignore basic human nature, you also ignore the fact that blacks didn't gain their civil rights by vitue of God "creating" them. Do you ignore slavery, now? Social liberals in government (JFK & LBJ lead among them) fought for those rights. Liberals in the community -- Martin Luther King, jr., lead among them -- fought for those rights.

You think the system of segregation in the South would be gone now if NOT for the intervention of the government to ensure that it ended? You think U. Miss's medical school would've admitted certain black students if not for Government intervention? Maybe you remember when US Marshalls stood armed guard to protect a black student against whom U. Miss had REFUSED to admit based on the color of his skin.

Interesting, isn't it? For centuries, white males have been superior throughout the world. This country fought a civil war to begin to change that. But it wasn't until the 1960's that true change began. And now that the white male is no longer quite so superior, who is that cries that they are being surpressed? Why, the white male. Intriguing, is it not? No longer king of the hill, no longer looking only to other white males to provide competition, but also to blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and women!

Why do you cry so loudly about equality, Omega? 'Fraid you won't get a job when you graduate college?

Affirmative Action did what it was supposed to. It's pushed assimilation of minorities within the workplace. Is it time for it to go? Leave that up to the individual states.

But to pretend that it wasn't needed is ludicrious.

Are rights equal? In law, yes. In practice? Not yet. But we're a hell of a lot closer. And it hasn't been thanks to fundies like you.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
***
"I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.

[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited April 19, 2001).]

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"Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"

-Nimrod 16/4/2001

Quite true. But when Omega wants to hold on to insane views, I feel obligated to point them out to him.

Honestly, the guy must've ignored all of American history to believe people have been treated equally irregardless of skin color! Did he forget slavery, segregation? Equal rights didn't just appear when people were born, they were fought for. And now that they've been won ...

Well, let's make sure they don't get lost again.

FORTUNATE expedience, since to go the other way WOULD have been to deny everything that the US stood for, and since without it, such a war might very well have happened. If it hadn't been for Vietnam, it might have turned out differently. In the US's fear of the 'Red Menace' it had already begun a slide in that direction.

It's interesting when we talk about 'superior' and 'inferior,' since they're such subjective terms.

Certainly, most other cultures would be GLAD to have our problems, don't you think?

I mean, this could be Rwanda. Or the Congo. Or Albania. Or Tibet. Or Afghanistan. Or Kashmir.

You know, it WAS dead white males who came UP with 'all men are created equal' as a workable concept, even if we DO have some problems keeping it an ideal. Everywhere the idea sprang up since, it has done so because of OUR influence, and the last time it was tried before here was ancient Greece.