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Devilman, no bad blood here. I visit SciFi Art all the time to get photo reference and stuff. And your site is pretty killer.
Regarding Sovies being promoted to the flagship, I don't think that is the issue. It's whether or not the ENTERPRISE is the flagship.
Follow me for a second: The Ent D is destroyed and they want to keep an Enterprise in service as the flagship, so what class should they make it? Of course they're going to make it the biggest and best. So it's my postulation that a Sovy class is not the flagship becuase she's a Sovy class. The Enterprise is the flagship and just happens to be a Sovy class. If the Ent D were still around, she would still be the flagship regardless of the fact that newer and better ships have come along. The Enterprise is a legend in the Federation, and I think that they want that legend representing them.
Just IMHO of course. And you're right, until it's said, they could do just about anything and make this a moot point. But isn't debating fun...? =)
posted
I'm not seeing where this "It's the Enterprise, so it must be the flagship" idea is coming from. Sure, the E-D was the flagship. I'm not sure, but they might have said at some point that the E-A was. But the E-nil, E-B, and E-C were never even hinted at as being flagships. Personally, I would expect the Excelsior to have been the flagship at the time of the E-B...
And, about the joystick... It may be useful in a situation where the ship has to make many quick turns one right after the other. But, in Insurrection, there was no point. The helmsman probably could have made the same maneuvers we saw w/ two or three button-pushes. It was a gimmick, nothing more.
------------------ "'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'" -Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
posted
Well, the E-E may be the flagship now, but it wasn't in FC. Remember the line about the flagship being destroyed?
------------------ Frank's Home Page "My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
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That was just the flagship of that particular fleet. But you knew that, being me for the next few days.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
posted
Wasn't it "the admiral's ship", not the "flagship"?
------------------ "Arthur hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realised there was a contradiction there and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife."
posted
It was called the flagship in the radio chatter.
------------------ Frank's Home Page "My son and I have this wonderful kind of rivalry. Since I've taken over the Mac department in our home, he's seen fit to take over the PC. I have a routine I do for him, walking down the hall, bumping into walls, doing corkscrews and stumbling. I tell him I'm a Windows operating system." - John de Lancie
Flagship: A ship that carries a fleet or squadron commander and bears the commander's flag.
(Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright � 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products N.V., further reproduction and distribution restricted in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.)
The etymology here is this: Admirals are known as "flag officers" because each has a flag which represents him (a military tradition dating back over 2000 years). When he boards a vessel, the vessel's flag is lowered and his is raised; she then becomes the "flag-ship." Therefore the "flagships" destroyed at Wolf-359 or at the Battle of Sector 001 were probably the battle fleet flagships. This would rhyme with Picard's message to the remaining fleet in ST-FC: "This is Captain Picard of the Enterprise. I'm taking command of the fleet."
Those who have pointed out the modern-day U.S.S. Constitution as paradigm for this discussion are probably right on the mark. She is a three-masted sailing ship over 150 years old, but for tradition's sake she's still the U.S. Navy flagship. I think it makes sense for Star Fleet to want to preserve tradition by keeping an Enterprise as their flagship.
(Oh, and by the way, I HATED the joystick!)
------------------ Dane
"...and there was war in heaven..." The Bible, Revelation 12:7
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Troi said "The Admiral's ship has been destroyed" in FC. I don't recall hearing the word flagship in the radio chatter. The point about Picard taking command of the fleet is something I forgot to mention before but have noticed too. How could Picard give other ships orders unless he somehow outranked the other other captains in a battle situation.
Janeway told capt. Ransom that the ship with tactical superiority outranked other ships in a battle situation. But this fact had not yet been established when FC came out. I think it was the writer's implication that Picard was aboard the Fleet's flagship and could therefore take command.
And TSN, there is just as little justification for thinking the Excelsior was ever the flagship as there is for believing the Enterprise B was.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
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Well, Brannon Braga co-wrote both "Equinox" and First Contact, so maybe he always had the tactical superiority rule in mind.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
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"I am Capt. Picard, the heir to Kirk, Locutus of Borg, Bald Sex symbol, Capt. of NCC 1701-E, U.S.S. Enterprise, ect. I am taking command of the fleet!"
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For some reason, I can picture Seven of Nine saying something similar to that...
------------------ Sometimes I run Sometimes I hide Sometimes I'm scared of you But all I really want is to hold you tight Treat you right, be with you day and night Baby all I need is time
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"I am Lieutenant Commander Marrissa Amber Flores Picard, adopted daughter of Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Second Officer on the USS Stargazer NCC-2893, Fighter Commander on the USS Stargazer NCC-2893, Coordinating Officer of the Starfleet Kids' Crews, Princess, and Heir to the Throne of the planet Essex!"
You can thank your choice of deity (or lack thereof) that wasn't said. (It's a reference to some really bad Trek fanfic. If you have to ask, you don't want to know.)
posted
I'm sure that (as hinted by the last few posts) Picard was only able to take command because everyone else knew who he was. If, instead of the E-E, another Sovereign had shown up, but it was commanded by Captain Bubba Jim-Bob formerly of the USS Cannon Fodder, command of the fleet would have come down according to a preset chain of command.
In other words, Picard was able to take command simply because he was Picard. :-)
------------------ "'...This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And abide the end!'" -Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol
posted
Ooooo!!!!! Aban Rune has a good point there! I was wondering how picard so easily took command of the fleet at the battle, so perhaps he Enty-E *IS* the flagship, only it simply hasnt been confirmed in any ep or dialogue!
Can anybody else please tell me how Picard could have taken command of the fleet with such ease? I`l dlike to know
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