quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: All of 'em, I'd hope.
I admit that the dialogue indicates that Klingons *could* have been at W359. It's just that the graveyeard scene doesn't conclusively support it, and I'm fairly certain that the episode wasn't supposed to show it that way. The footage in "Unity" is of course stock footage reuse, which could have been from anywhere.
But if Klingon ships are to be present, I would like at least some passing explanation as to why we don't see 'em in the graveyeard or battle scenes. One reason was that there were so few of them in the first place - less than, say, five or so could be easily lost in the mess. That, or they simply were blown to unidentifyable chunks of scrap. This would make sense with the smaller ships like BoPs, as we didn't see many (if any) "small" (Miranda-sized) ships in the graveyard scene.
Also, if you included D7/K'tinga class ships in the mix, you'd get around the problem of why we didn't see any green-coloured scrap in the mix. Grey Klingon ships mix better with the carnage.
Mark
[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
You could explane the lack of Klingon debris by saying that, in BOBW we diddn't see the whole graveyard, only a bit of it. This is a fair assumption anyway since there is no way that there were anywhere near as many as 39 hulks onscreen, there was no Ambassador, Miranda (I think), Excelsior or Oberth bits either. So we can say that there were infact Klingons at Wolf 359, and they got their arses kicked just like Starfleet.
posted
Yes, the Farragut was destroyed in "Nor the Battle to the Strong."
A brief summary of the post WOTW Fed-Klingon conflict:
Things were tense but generally stable throughout most of season four, the Klingons had occupied a big chunk of Cardassian territory but nothing else.
Then came the big fight in "Broken Link," when Gowron reclaimed the Archanis Sector for the Klingon Empire (a claim which had been relinquished approximately 100 years previously -- probably at the Khitomer Conference). I got the impression that Archanis was a fairly important part of Federation territory, so by the beginning of Season 5 ("Apocalypse Rising") the Federation was in outright war with the Klingons.
Gowron called off the war when Sisko's team exposed the changeling at the end of "Apocalypse Rising," but there were still skirmishes and other fights on some of the border worlds for a while.
One personal wish: I would LOVE to see a CGI version of the New Orleans Class thrown into the mix. The New Orleans-class USS Rutledge was mentioned as being a participant in the Klingon War in "Nor the Battle to the Strong," and so that would be a great occasion to toss in an image of every treknologist's favorite background starship.
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posted
Anyone else think the Federation/Cardassian War in the early to mid 24th century would be a great "unseen frontier" to show?
From what we know, it was basically like World War I (with the Dominion War being Star Trek's World War II) and it would be great to see the early TNG ships in their prime. Ships like the Ambassador and New Orleans classes.
Speaking of wars, is there any way you could include maps and diagrams of battles like the displays we saw in DS9?
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quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: One personal wish: I would LOVE to see a CGI version of the New Orleans Class thrown into the mix. The New Orleans-class USS Rutledge was mentioned as being a participant in the Klingon War in "Nor the Battle to the Strong," and so that would be a great occasion to toss in an image of every treknologist's favorite background starship.
I second that! It would be great to see the Rutledge! its a tough ship with a long history.
I recall a bit in "Apocalypse Rising" about a Klingon bragging how he beamed on to the bridge of a Starfleet ship and killed the Benzite Captain named Laporin (breathing tubes ripped off or something) there was also a Tellarite helmsman involved.
Some info on the ships involved in the Klingon War
U.S.S. ARMSTRONG NCC-57537 CHALLENGER-CLASS Ambushed by Klingon battle group in 2373, Docked at DS9 for repairs and medical aid. OPERATIONAL
U.S.S. DRAKE NCC-70956 ANDROMEDA-CLASS Ambushed by Klingon battle group in 2373, Docked at DS9 for repairs and medical aid . OPERATIONAL
U.S.S. FARRAGUT NCC-60597 NEBULA-CLASS Rescued Enterprise-D crew from Veridian III in 2371, Destroyed by Klingon forces in 2373 near the Lembatta cluster while enroute to evacuate Federation colonists from Ajilon Prime. DESTROYED
U.S.S. RUTLEDGE NCC-57295 NEW ORLEANS-CLASS Commanded by Captain Benjamin Maxwell during the Cardassian War, Miles O'Brian once served as Tactical Officer, First ship on the scene after the Setlik III massacure, Partisipated in counter attack against Klingon Forces near Ajilon Prime with the Tecumseh in 2373. OPERATIONAL
U.S.S. TECUMSEH NCC-14934 EXCELSIOR-CLASS Commanded by Captain Raymond, Fought during the Cardassian War, Partisipated in counter attack against Klingon Forces near Ajilon Prime with the Rutledge in 2373, Suffered losses in 2374 during the Dominion war. OPERATIONAL
U.S.S. TRIAL NCC-UNKNOWN UNKNOWN (Its either an Excelsior or a Miranda) A part of the task force of six ships under Admiral Haster that responded to the Klingon threat at DS9 in 2372 OPERATIONAL
U.S.S. VENTURE NCC-71854 GALAXY-CLASS Commanded by Admiral Hastur, lead the fleet of six Starships that responded to the Klingon threat at DS9 in 2372, Participated in Operation Return and the invasion of Chin'toka in 2374. OPERATIONAL
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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posted
Mojo, your mention of the Tholians brings up other TOS ideas for me:
--Joint exercises with the First Federation --Peacekeeping patrols near the Gorn --That Altairian inauguration from "Amok Time" --Garth's use of the Cochrane deceleration manuever at Tau Ceti --The Battle of Donatu V --The peace mission to Axanar --The aftermath of Tarsus IV, when ships arrived after Kodos' edict (this could tie into a modification of the call above for hospital ships)
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posted
I don't think it really has any. It's just we tend to get overly excited about ships that have never been seen clearly onscreen.
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posted
Er...that is, unless you're talking about the model itself, which was a Galaxy-esque thing built to suggest a Galaxy design family extending earlier into the 24th century.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
For my part, it's because I like small ships. Yes, I love the larger cruisers & explorers, but you can get a little more "bang for your buck" with a bunch of smaller frigates, destroyers, scouts, & escorts.
We know the NEWs were in service by 2347 (ref. "The Wounded") & that the lowest known rego is 57295 for Rutledge; I'd like to think that they entered service somewhere between 2339 & 2344. We know that as frigates they have to be like a "mini-explorer," bridging the gaps between small single-mission less-capable assets like destroyers & escorts and the large multimission cruisers & explorers we see on a regular basis. Heavily armed for a midsized vessel, they'd need stamina as well, but not be "over the top." I'd imagine special attention would be paid to sensors, weapons, & speed as well as related systems--fast enough to get into places (& get out when it gets too hot; this is the idea behind my "rapid response frigate" idea) with the armanent to make a short-term show of force & the sensors to handle it all.
I've imagined them as being sent into hot spots during peacetime, pulling patrol duties along borders & spacelanes, perhaps even handling limited exploration. During wartime they'd be fleet information coordinators like modern-day AEGIS-equipped naval vessels, perhaps even flagships thanks to this intel coordination ability; they'd also handle convoy duties as well as minor strikes or composing major fleet pickets.
But that's me.
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posted
If someone could give me a rundown of what situations (other than Wolf 359) New Orleans class vessels have been involved in, it would help me figure out what to do with it in the book!
In other news, I just watched "Nor the Battle to the Strong" and it gives me a WHOLE lot of ideas for just the kind of images I'd like to present. LOTS of great, unseen stuff implied here.
Has there ever been an official design for the Starfleet Hopper? Has it been mentioned in any other episodes?
I assume the guys on the ground were Starfleet Marines. Have they ever been mentioned by name on the show? Has there ever been another instance of these guys in black sweaters with the red stripe?
I'd LOVE to do an image of that last Marine holding off Klingon ground troops as the Hopper makes its escape in the distance...
-Cardassian War (I imagine the NO being the Defiant of that war) -Tzenkethi Wars -Narendra III, if it is not too early? -Perhaps one of the ships responding to the Khitomer massacre of 2246, with the (Excelsior class?) USS Intrepid (which carried Rozhenko) -Responding to the Tholian attack on a starbase, mentioned in "Unnatural Selection" (TNG) as being around 2252. -Talarian conflicts (mentioned in "Suddenly Human") -The "Conspiracy" (TNG) alien invasion of SF Command. Both the Thomas Paine NCC-65530 and the Renegade NCC-63102 are part of the secret meeting on Dytallix B. The Thomas Paine was also part of Picard's blockade in "Redemption II" (TNG).
- The future Romulans leaving Vulcan in in huge multi-generation ships. - The Mirror Universe war between the Terran Empire and the Alliance - A Mirror Universe story in the ENT timeframe? Perhaps the upcoming Terran Empire at war with Vulcan? - The NCC-1701 undergoing refit from pilot-version to series-version - Early "Valiant"/ENT-intro style warp ships, making the first Earth trip to Vulcan.
posted
I must APOLOGISE for my incorrect comment about the 30 warbirds amassing along the neutral zone - that was indeed from All Good Things... OOPS!
The secret meeting at Dytallix B - yeah that's a NO place - 1 Galaxy, 1 Ambassador and 2 NO's were there.
I second the opinion that the Ferengi ship at the Battle of Maxia was NOT a D'Kora class Marauder.
Never ever seen or heard of hoppers ever again after 'nor the...'
What about seeing the rest of the Erewhon Class from "Paradise"!?! It was a 'Jim Martin' design I think.
And if there is any earlier Cardassian War ships shown... no Keldon or Galor class ships! (Actually a nice 'real' view of the first version of Voyager (seen in the Art of Star Trek) would be nice - I LIKED that design! And I think it was built as an 'older ship' if my early rumours from mags about Voyager are correct. The opening of Voyager was originally going to show Janeway in the Cardassian Wars - and that Voyager was not a brand-spanking new ship. The scene mentioned was later brought up between her and Harry Kim I believe.
I'd like to see some of those other ships in actual scenes - the ships seen in the background of BOBW and Unification - the prototypes for the Excelsior and the E-refit etc.
Re the New Orleans again - it's rarely seen in pics... there's a black and white version in The first encylopaedia... a redone version in colour in the second encyclopaedia and then there is the only other three pictures floating around the net - the pic of it hanging up in someone's office - the scorched ship... another of it on a desk next to a Challenger and one docked to DS9 - mentioned recently in another thread. This seems to be from some abandoned effect.
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