posted
But what difference does it make, really? The Iconians used to be around, then Iconia was bombed down to the mantle, and now they're not.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
I imagine it matters a great deal to the Iconians.
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
But I mean to someone interested in making a Star Trek map. We could postulate all sorts of crazy theories about the Iconians but at the end of the day the planet called Iconia is at some particular spot.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Keep the Patriarchy. It's in the Bootis direction for a reason (see Nivenverse's speculations on Kzinhome location).
The Tzenkethi are going to get a novel treatment soon enough, I hear. That is, a Ben Sisko novel dealing with him, Leighton, the supporting cast from "Catch-22", and nasty aliens that probably aren't going to look like rat-tailed, batwing-eared cats.
Also, if you are into wall art, you'll probably want to fill the upper right corner of the A/B map somehow. The space beyond the Romulan Star Empire was rather devoid of points of interest, but you could for example put the New Frontier adventures in there to fill the vacuum. We know that Calhoun and co. were somewhere far away from the war zone, and this "back yard" is as good a spot as any.
The lower central areas in turn will soon get more meat on the bones from the Vanguard series...
posted
Cool- thanks for the ideas! Mabye that "New Frontier" region (Thallolian Empire) would be out in that empty area...I did not consider that as the books are a big disapointment to me, but mabye...
I was thinking about ditching the horrible text used for headers and replacing it with a nice LCARS curved rectangle bar thingie and using the "dead space" to place a legend.
For the Tzkenthi, "Patriarchy" sounds best. "Coalition"- sounds like an agreement between pals, not a tough dictatorship like the Tzkenthi are supposed to be (though who knows with the new book exploring things?).
Are the regions of space held by the Shelliak or the Jarada listed? The Jarada were never actually shown but I think their space was near wherever the Enterprise was during the episode they were mentioned in.
Why is Pacifica sooo far from Sol when the Enterprise managed to get from there back to Sol in Contagin pretty damn fast (days at most, I'd guess).
Timo, was there anything you noticed that was omitted since the book was published?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
There is a tiny hint to the Sheliak empire on the second fold-out "Known Space", But it is located far far far behind the Breen empire as per the star "Sheliak" (Beta Lyrae). However information suggests that the Sheliak come from the Shelia star system. (see MA:Sheliak and MA:Sheliak (star))
posted
I prefer to think the Shelia system in out by Tzkenthi space rather than think Enterprise was waaaaay past Breen space as early as The Ensigns of Command.
With both Sheliak and Tzenkethi in that neighborhood, it would make sense that we never saw either onscreen- less contact means less conflict sometimes.
I'd only give hem a tiny territory though- mabye a fifth of what is listed as Tzenkethi space.
Sound about right?
EDIT: Hmmm...after looking at the Charts, I see that there's a smallish space "north" of Sol called "The Patriarchy" already. Excuse my ignorance on this, but what is this from? TAS? If so, I can ditch it (along with "Cait"- fuck that nonsense) and put something intresting there instead.
Mabye a Howard Johnsons or a White Castle.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I may be missing something here, but we did see the Sheliak onscreen, unless you're specifically talking about their homeworld. And if you want to get nitpicky, they signed their big long agreement in 2255 (I looked it up), so hadn't they ought to be somewhere adjacent to Federation exploration in that era?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
YOu are correct- we did see the Sheliak: I'm tired.
I meant we did not see the Jarada onscreen (though they get mentioned once or twice)- I was trying to recall which episode mentioned them and fucked up.
The notion of the Sheliak being in with Tzenkethi space is still valid though for the reasons stated (and because it worls better as Beta Lyrae than BFE Breen country).
Hmmm..while certainly not definitive, it would be intresting to know where Enterprise was in the prior episode (assuming the stardate is not too far off between episodes).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote: Why is Pacifica sooo far from Sol when the Enterprise managed to get from there back to Sol in [Conspiracy] pretty damn fast (days at most, I'd guess).
That's because Pacifica has to be next door to Mira, the place where Picard meets Walker Keel. And Mira is a real star (Omicron Ceti) at that distance from Earth.
Omicron Ceti also appears in TOS "This Side of Paradise". If Kirk and a bunch of colonists could reach the location in reasonable time, I'd assume Picard could do the same or better. And Mira isn't THAT far in comparison with places like Canopus, Antares or Rigel: when the reason is good and the cause is just, our heroes in TOS and TNG alike can span distances of several hundred lightyears in a matter of days.
As for the Sheliak, I sort of assume they actually live at Sheliak and not in some nearby location in the direction of Sheliak. That's because Tau Cygna (sic) is also a real star, and quite a bit farther away than the "usual suspects". How the colonists got past or through Cardassian or Breen territory isn't that big a mystery, considering how leaky Cardassian space is in DS9... There's also always the third dimension.
So- how much space should our baggy Sheliak pals get? Not much, for certain but something should be out there at Sheliak if they have Federation-ceded colony worlds.
It seemed the Sheliak colony ship had traveled a long distance to reach that ceded planet too...
Any idea where that disputed world would be exactly? For the Sheliak, i'm thinking of a small region of space (bordering sorta southwest of Tzenkethi space) with three or four tentacle like branches leading outward to their colonies.
I still dont see how the Tzenkethi have a "Patriarchy"- what I've seen of the Kzin tells of their females being sub-sentient and the Kzin being chauvanistic o an extreme as a result.
But that's assuming the Kzin and Tzenkethi are related- and of course, they cant be, beacuse "giant tiger-people" is a really lame idea.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
quote: Any idea where that disputed world would be exactly?
On the second fold-out page at the end...
Since both the Sheliak and Federation colonists seem to have come a long way, it does make sense for Tau Cygni to be out in the sticks. And the Sheliak can well be a mighty empire three times the size of the UFP, as long as they are sufficiently distant.
I've never thought of the Tzenkethi as Kzinti, really. The Patriarchy of the Charts is where the felinoids live, plain and simple - although no doubt they have aggressively colonized the neighborhood. The Caitians are quite distant relatives, and live in completely different direction...
As for the Kzinti having a "patriarchy" in the first place, blame Niven. That's pretty much the "official" name for their excuse for a society.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: I still dont see how the Tzenkethi have a "Patriarchy"- what I've seen of the Kzin tells of their females being sub-sentient and the Kzin being chauvanistic o an extreme as a result.
Well, that is the definition of Patricarchy:
2 entries found for Patriarchy. pa�tri�ar�chy Audio pronunciation of "Patriarchy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-�rk) n. pl. pa�tri�ar�chies In both senses also called patriarchate.
1. A social system in which the father is the head of the family and men have authority over women and children. 2. A family, community, or society based on this system or governed by men.
Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic