quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Yeah, but think of the fun you can have with Photoshop making those TAS aliens look plausable (nudge, nudge).
Bajor gets admitted in the (non-canon, but extremely well-written) DS9 books that start up eight months after the series ends.
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those fisrt two are not great, but the third is exceptional and the fourth is pretty nice.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Really? Still, Bajor is not part of the UFP- What is your most favorite DS9 book? I've not read any of the post series books you speak of... And I really should.
Registered: Dec 2005
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There's a two parter ( Avatar pt's 1 & 2)that starts things off and introduces the new characters (new science officer, first officer, security chief, a conn officer for the Defiant, a counselor and a tactical officer ...among others).
The books really catch the characters and spirit of the show, and just like the show, the stories bleed into each other as a larger plot unfolds.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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http://www.craigdannenberg.com/bajor/mapnew.gif I�d like to fish for some comments on a map I posted earlier and have recently updated thanks to a more expansive species/planet listing I think it was Jason who posted.
The Federation- I tried to make the Federation more fluid than I had it before, and I ponder it could be more fluid still. The UFP is made up of worlds that want to join- Maps tend to give borders to the Empires/groups, but the Federation really should be borderless except where it adjoins another Empire. I�ve tried to put some groups within Federation space like the Lysians, Satarrans, Coalition of Madena, Sheliak, as well as other pockets of space the Federation grew around. I�ve also added many small pockets and single systems outside the main UFP territory that are aligned to the UFP.
The sector system I�ve sub-divided the Federation into- I certainly don�t hold to this, mostly I�ve divided it up this way for ease of use, sectors have been given names and numbers in Trek.
Trill, is it a Federation world, or is it not- it�s listed as being either depending on what source you look at. When Crusher fell in love with the ambassador from Trill- she and everyone else seemed to know absolutely nothing about the Trill, they are not secretive about who and what they are, and if they were UFP members, their physiological profile should be part of the medical database. Sisko seemed to have troubles dealing with the Trill Symbiosis Commission, but the Federation is a republic- planets really run their own affairs, so the lack of co-operation does not really mean that they are not members. We�ve seen several Trill in Starfleet, but an alien can get into Starfleet if they have a note from a ranking officer. Trill have moved to Federation worlds, showing either good relations, or it gives them an in to Starfleet service. Ezri was implanted with the Dax symbiont since she was the only Trill on the ship taking it home- chance occurrence, or are there really many Trill in Starfleet? I�ve left Trill as independent for now.
The Klingons and Romulans I feel control their territory on a tight leash, I did not place any non-aligned worlds within their borders. The Cardassians on the other hand I made a number of spots within the bounds of their Union, but have declared independence after the end of the Dominion war- Most all of the worlds listed in their space are purely, or assumed to be a majority of Cardassian in population, but the Bajora were said not the only people the Cardassians had taken over- and I feel at the conclusion of the war many worlds would be able to pull away from the Cardassians.
TAS Aliens- I�ve largely stayed away from species that were in the animated series, as that is considered non-canon, I did include the Kzinti, Lyrans, and Hydrans as they were major powers. I can accept them into my Trek world view I guess- Perhaps in post-TOS time their militaries have been completely defeated (I gave them just a tiny bit of space), and we just never hear from them.
Registered: Dec 2005
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Well, what I did notice is the Mutara sector which does not contain Ceti Alpha and Genesis. Also the novelisation by Blish has it that the Botany Bay was on course to Tau Ceti...
What I also consider odd is the fact that you placed Altair so far off the Federation. Note it is near Vulcan and Altair is a real star.
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Ceti Alpha does not need to be near the Mutara sector. We don't know how long Khan was on the Reliant and travelling at an unknown warp factor to reach Regula 1.
In thinking about this, I've wonderd if a person could do a map that was truely three dimensional. Right now this map is still 2-D.
What if Klingon and Romulan space wrapped "up" and "above" Federation space (or "down" and "below"). Think of a hand cupping a ball. The ball would be Federation space and the hand could be Klingon or Romulan (or both) space.
This would have the benefit of making Klingon and Romulan space closer to Cardassian space and would likewise put them in the Alpha Quadrant (or partially in it) with everyone else.
Klingons need to be closer to Cardiassia. Well, they don't "need" to be. The Cardassian book "Meditations on a Crimson Cloud" described a time when the Federation had collapsed and the Cardassians and Klingons were the two surviving superpowers. In the Mirror-Mirror universe Cardassia and the Klingons are unified with Bajor.
Now, this could happen if Cardassia and the Klingons are on direct opposite sides of the Federation, but it'd be easier if they were closer. This would also explain the ease in which Klingon and Romulan fleets can reach DS-9 and Cardassia.
Registered: Feb 2004
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Kobi, thanks- since they were both very close to being on the line I pushed them over into Mutara. I'll look for a real star chart in order to place Altair better.
Herb, 3D maps... They can be in many ways mind boggling, I've seen some of the ones here, but most I think have just shown Earth and the surrounding area- to make one of such a wide area would be a bit of a mess, so I've mostly worked on just 2-D maps, looking down on the galaxy from above- I certainly accept that some unseen overlapping is taking place... not all the borders are straight up and down.
From everything I've read, the RSE and KE are strickly Beta.... Qo'nos is very close to the border though- I thought that to be logical since it is freqently visited, even in ENT - Broken Bow (though that episode did take place over a fairly long period of time)(but they also didn't have the fastest warp drive). I feel in the Mirror Universe things are of a different layout. On my map, the Federation has served as a wall- Klingon expansion is then strictly focused away and to the other direction of the UFP and RSE, but in the Mirror Universe I'm sure the Terrans got into a number of good fights with the Klingons, lost after Spock spread his knowledge, and then you have the Klingons expanding our way- and probably expanding with a vengenance. I do not see the Klingon Empire in either being larger that the other... but their expansion our way would have made them closer to Cardassian space, who were also trying to expand in the direction of Earth- as that was the cause of the UFP/Cardassian war, so without a UFP there, I would think it would have been easy for the Cardassians to expand this way, perhaps also in result causing their other borders to be less.
Registered: Dec 2005
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Looking back at the map again... I do think the Mutara sector (with the Mutara Nebula) should be in with Regula. In fact, my impression from STII is that Genesis is in orbit of the same star Regula orbited.
The Enterprise was heavily damaged in the fight with the Reliant. There isn't any way they could have made it clear across the Federation in the shape they were in after Kirk and co. beamed back up from Regula.
Registered: Feb 2004
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There are three distinct locations in the Khan saga: the site of his discovery, the Ceti Alpha system, and the Regula system.
The first has to be within about 150 ly of Earth, since Khan's ship supposedly lacked warp drive. That's all we know canonically, although the Encyclopedia noncanonically suggests this place is in the Mutara sector, and thus supposedly within 20 ly of the nebula.
The second ought to be somewhat off the beaten path in the TOS and TFS eras, or Khan would have been rediscovered earlier. Kirk probably deliberately chose such a system to hide Khan from the Federation; and by that same token, Kirk wouldn't have loitered too far from his designated patrol area (that is, the first location) or the Federation would have found out.
The third ought to be sufficiently distant from the second so that it would not be the very first system explored by the Reliant. It also ought to be within reach of the Enterprise, which had departed Earth at most three weeks prior (the movie makes it look like a couple of hours only, but we can't tell for sure; all we know is that Kirk expected to be back to Earth in three weeks). It should be sufficiently distant that the simultaneous presence of two starships is a real surprise, and that nobody immediately checks when a starship goes silent there. And of course, the Mutara nebula must be within a short sublight hop from Regula; in fact, Regula practically was IN the Mutara nebula to begin with.
All this really sets no constraints worth mention to the Regula location... Anything from 50 to 500 ly out is all right even by Okudaic speeds and distances, and the rest is negotiable. OTOH, Klingons later manage to sneak in to this system, so it might be a good idea to put this fairly close to Klingon space. Not so close that the Feds would actually expect a Klingon invasion, though.
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Ok, I flipped the Mutara and Delta sectors in name, and moved the Mutara Nebula, Genesis, Ceti Alpha with Mutara. I also moved Regulus One and the Regulus system to the Mutara Sector. There were only but a few canon sector names, so I would often name the sector for the most known feature in it, so I changed the name of the �Regulus� Sector which just lost Regulus to �Antares� since it contains the Antares Maelstrom.
Close and far, on a trade route and out of the way is very relative- I could put the dot right on Earth, but the two dots could be quite different in depth.
I added Altair and Vega to the Muratas Sector- they were actually in the opposite direction as Vulcan, but again, Altair and Vulcan could be very high up, and Earth in the middle, and so Vulcan and Altair can be closer to one another than either is to Earth.
El-Auria- I tossed it way out in the Beta Quadrant with some of its noted colonies, (or at least unknown worlds where El-Aurians have mentioned) I figured they had to be somewhat distant if they were attacked by the Borg, and the Federation never helped/ recorded the existence of the Borg, yet it is still close enough for refugees to get to the Federation.
I added seldom (only once) mentioned worlds R-Z. If anyone notices a duplicated location let me know, I uploaded the new map with the same name as before.
Registered: Dec 2005
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Why? This is Trek. They can have a Ceti Alpha and Alpha Ceti systems. Nothing stopping them.
I personally think Klingon and Romulan space should border at Gamma Hydra. In TOS Gamma Hydra was in Romulan hands but, in the Kobiyashi Maru Gamma Hydra was near the Klingon border.
I e-mailed the guy (was that you, Shakaar?) that did the maps over at ST-Dimensions. He replied that he put Gamma Hydra(e) where he did because that's where the real star is.
If I ever create a SciFi universe, I'll insist the star map reflect the real placement of all stars. We know the locations of several stars within hundreds of light years. That's enough room to pinpoint the locations. And, if you want to have far-flung empires, just give them completely made-up star names.
Registered: Feb 2004
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When doing that, one has to remember that the stars that have recognizable names are usually poor choices for dramatically interesting, life-bearing star systems.
This is because most of the stars that got dibs on cool names did so because they were BRIGHT. There are two ways for a star to be bright: either you are close to Sol, or you are hot. And most stars naturally only meet the latter criterion, which is not a good thing because hot stars burn fast and may not allow planets (let alone planetary life) to evolve.
On the other hand, there's currently plenty of reason to think that if a star is so dim that it was poorly known or unknown by the late 20th century, it is also prime estate for planetary formation and the evolution of life. Hence, all-fictional stars may be the best way to populate a scifi realm; they can be "inserted" to the real Milky Way without any negative impact on plausibility.
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TSN- Pshhh... I have a Tkon star mover, you just point click and drag. As was said before my last post, the reason for their movement was to reflect their actual locations which I had wrong.
Regulus however I moved back close to where I originally had it- as that is where Regulus is located.
Bah, Gamma Hydra is not on my real star maps, I'll have to find a new one before I move it.
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