quote:Originally posted by Dat: However Trip and Travis did seem to see Starfleet Headquarters right before being attacked by the three P-51s. And you still haven't explained (or try to) the alien Nazi.
Obviously, the nazis were always led by blue vampire-aliens.
Nothing's wrong with the timeline at all.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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As to the Bay Area in that screenshot, here're the nits to pick:
1. The hills to the lower left aren't underdeveloped. That's all the Marin headlands. It was undeveloped then, and likely to remain so, as it's a big park area.
2. Since the hills are all green, and that usually only happens early in the year, it's probably sometime between January and March.
3. Enterprise Starfleet HQ as seen in the other screen shot is located at Fort Baker, the cove just showing down-left of the shuttlepod's left wing.
4. The Presido at the right of the bridge appears to be well forested, maybe too much so for the 1940s, but I can't say for sure.
5. The water texture makes the whole think look like it's a 1/100th scale model. Fake-o-rama.
6. San Francisco used to have a lot more piers than it does now. If this were OUR 1940s you'd see lots of piers and ships along the edge of the city at the top right.
These FX guys need me as a SFHQ consultant.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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"Since the hills are all green, and that usually only happens early in the year, it's probably sometime between January and March."
Yeah. February.
"...Archer is definately in the 1940s."
"Definitely". And he's in some place that looks like the 1940s. So, unless you've read the script from next season's premiere...
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quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: 2. Since the hills are all green, and that usually only happens early in the year, it's probably sometime between January and March.
3. Enterprise Starfleet HQ as seen in the other screen shot is located at Fort Baker, the cove just showing down-left of the shuttlepod's left wing.
I was there last August and everything was lush and green (probably watered, but so what).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Regarding whether the city looks like 1940's San Francisco or not:
"- In the shuttle, Mayweather says 'it looks normal to me'. You'd think someone would recognize the differences between 1940s and 2150s San Fransisco. It also seems like the landing pad Tucker refers to is actually there. OTOH, the shuttle's sensors apparently can't differentiate P-51 Mustangs from a Starfleet vessel."
In ST-IV - [the search for cetaceans], Sule, who was a native of San Francisco, states that 1980's SF doesn't look "really all that different". And that would also be over a gap of over two centuries, nich wahr? So we can assume that two non-Friscans could be easily confused as to whether or not the city looks 'normal' - as seen through wispy cloud cover from a few miles up.
QED: both Archer and the NX-01 are back in the 1940's _______________________________________
Regarding the cause of the time travel/displacement:
The vortex travel has been bothering me for some time. If it works so well - and so f**king fast, why aren't Starfleet ships of the 23rd and 24th century using such technology?
One 'working hypothesis' I'm playing with is that the technology works hand-in-tentacle with the sphere distortions (and is a tech gift from the Guardians). With the sphere's out of commission, the calibration may no longer work - ever again. Which also means that that Aquatic ship is lost in time. After all, when it dropped NX-01 off, it must have been in the 20th century as well. How will it get back to its 'present'?
Another hypothesis is that the explosion of the weapon left an expansing shockwave around Earth, so that any vortex appearing near Earth would exit in the 1940's. This is backed up by Archer's displacement - he was in the heart of the shockwave when it initially detonated.
Registered: Feb 2001
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Ok, here we go, hang on to your collar pips.
Yes, glad to see y'all resolved it wasn't a Reman. Unless they went from looking like blue-skinned red-eyed catfish to grey skinned normal eyed bats in 300 years.
Second, from that altitude, Trip and Mayweather could only have gotten a general feel for the city. I think "looks pretty normal" translates to "hey, it's a city instead of a gigantic smoldering crater," as opposed to "From a two miles up it appears identical to the city we left nine months ago." SFHQ was on one oend of the bridge, so Trip told Mayweather to land at the pad behind it, so he just started to point the shuttlepod towards the proper end of the bridge. As has been pointed out, SF has remained fairly similar from the 20th to the 23rd and 24th centuries. Much like Paris or Washington DC have been rather static for historical and legal reasons.
Now, the WHY. MY theories are:
A) Daniels tried to move Archer out of the exploding sphere, but the explosion threw off the Time Shifting Doohickey (that's the technical 29th century term for it, by the way) and wound up launching archer back 200 years. So his only choice was to send Enterprise back after him. They were shifter post-departure from within the belly of the whale - er, Aquatic-ship bay.
B) Daniels tried to move Archer out of the exploding sphere, but the explosion threw off the TSD (Time Shifting Doohickey), sending him back 200 years. At the same time, the sudden destruction of the spheres and their spatial distortions caused a ripple effect that caused the expanse to somehow "backslide" through time about 200 years, but that this backslide wasn't instantaneous, allowing the Xindii and Archer's boarding party to slip back into the Expanse before the backslide started (after all, it only takes hours in those vorticies they use). Thus, by the time the Enterprise was ferried home, the backslide had occurred, and from the Xindi point of view, everything's fine (since the whole expanse backslid).
As for why there were no Earth ships ready to defend Earth. I wager that the weapon appeared much closer to Earth than anticipated. I bet they had some first line defenders out by Jupiter or something, and when the weapon appeared in-system that far, they didn't have enough time to get back before the fight was over.
Registered: Jan 2004
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Hmmm...intresting theory. The Xindi ship could concievably go back to their old homeworld and retrieve some of those nifty Avians we've heard so much about.
Mabye. We never actually saw the Xindi ship go back into a vortex did we? Mabye they're flitting around the solar system still wondering why nothing seems to work. Do Aquatic ships have normal warp drives?
I think Archer tried to beam out of the Sphere and Earth was just within range: the blast fried him up a bit and so he was found near a battlefield somewhere a few hours before we see him in the tent.
As to the nazi vampire: I no longer think it's a Reman (unless it's a pretty distnctive variation on what we saw in Nemesis- possibly before hundreds of yeras mining dilithium for example).
So- the blue nazi is either yet another faction in the Cold War, someone playing at altering earth's history but not involved in the war, appears to be human to those around him ....or the timeline's royally fucked and humans think it's perfectly normal to serve this alien "master race".
I think everyone's back in the 1940's. I think we'll see more of Daniel's if the shjip is to return home but they have a great cance to bring back the NX-01 a few years layer than they left: We could see the birth of the Federation during the series and NX-01 would've become legendary for stopping the Xindi weapon and they would conviently came back just as the Romulan war wraps up.
There's a real chance to salvage some TOS continuity with this detour.
Fuck, there could even be a Deadalus zipping along at warp 6 wg=hen they get back!
(I know I'm hoping for too much here)
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Aww rats. I forgot to explain the Blue Fish-Man. Sorry. Ok, I'll wager that they're contemporary aliens working with the Nazi's for their own nefarious reasons, but have some sort of handwavium device to make them look like humans (except to the omnipresent invisible HDTV camera). We just happened to stumble upon them in time for an exciting Season 4 opener arc!
After all, haven't you ever tripped, and wound up steppign right into some dog doo by coincidence?
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Would'nt it be cool if the Blue Alien was some sort of good guy? Someone sent back in time to help the NX-01 crew get back in one piece without sacrificing the timeline?
Again, I hope for far too much: non-human is EVIL! EVIL I say!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: 2. Since the hills are all green, and that usually only happens early in the year, it's probably sometime between January and March.
3. Enterprise Starfleet HQ as seen in the other screen shot is located at Fort Baker, the cove just showing down-left of the shuttlepod's left wing.
I was there last August and everything was lush and green (probably watered, but so what).
I was just saying what time of year it probably was, because normally the hills around here aren't green, but golden brown. As to it being green in August last year, you mean all over the hills around here? I had a friend over from New Zealand 3 times in the first half of the year, and by April all the hills were brown.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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It was pretty green near the water (well maintained) but farther inland, everything was brown.
Just the area shown of the Golden Gate was pretty green as I recall (Golden Gate park in particular).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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The only real objection to their travelling through time is Mayweather not commenting on the stars' positions like he did in "E2."
In that instance they'd just emerged from a vortex-type disturbance and needed a position fix.
But this time, they've just been dropped off near Earth by a vortex-travelling ship that doesn't use stellar positioning so wouldn't notice any discrepancy; they've likely been told by the Xindi-Aquatic captain they've arrived, so Mayweather doesn't confirm that - he just goes and obtains a fix based on their proximity to Earth itself, the best landmark to use in their situation.
Now, assuming the shuttle gets clear of the P-51s - and given what we've seen these shuttles capable of, I'll be very pissed off if they're forced down by a WW2-vintage prop plane - the first thing they'll likely do is take a fix on the stars and figure out what happens.
But no doubt they'll get forced down and it'll be a cross between "Future's End" and "Little Green Men" or something. . .
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